« "a giant catcher's mitt." | Main | American Meddling in the Ukraine by Publius Tacitus »

22 February 2018

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

David Habakkuk

All,

Societies cannot survive without some culture of honour.

One cannot sustain such cultures unless there are serious sanctions for dishonourable conduct (as well as rewards for honourable.)

The point of such sanctions is partly to create fear, but it is not just that. It is clearly to mark out such conduct as dishonourable – to burn a message into people’s thick heads.

Inevitably, in this process there will, not all that infrequently, be elements of ‘rough justice.’

It does not seem to me that severely punishing this man would be such.

turcopolier

james

The solution lies in magnetometers at every entrance and armed guards or trained selected teachers who will do their duty unlike this cur. pl

GeneO

@Babak M: "40 years ago, under the guise of "Community Care", mental institutions were closed down and the inmates released to the community care - in reality, they became criminals or vagrants - street people."

And the big pharmaceuticals made huge profits! I seem to recall the start of deinstitutionalizing mental patients was even earlier when Thorazine was introduced as the first antipsychotic. Here is an ad from 1960: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Thorazine_advert.jpg

But many states held on until 1984 when the tipping point finally arrived due to federal defunding.

As for Scot Peterson, IMO he should eat his gun.

SmoothieX12

That coward has to live with himself. I can't think of a more fitting and terrifying punishment.

Yes, this is not a good way to live. The situation, however, is aggravated by the fact that children were there and many of them died. This is not burden one wants to have in one's life.

Tosk59

With reference to "the 23 calls" this Twitter thread (FWIW) seems to indicate a much bigger problem/mess...

https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/966854507744374784

Alaric

This person was a cop not a soldier. Most don’t go into the police force expecting to get shot at and that is rare. In the NYC area from which I am from, most go into the force for salary, pension and benefits not to fight crime. But yes this person was a coward. The thought of young students being killed should have inspired him to overcome his fear.

Disclaimer: I’ve never been shot at and I don’t know how I would act in that situation. My father was once held “hostage” for an hour or so by one of his psychiatric patients in NYC. My father knew the gun was fake I think. NYPD did not. He described the NYPD officers who came to his office that day as the biggest bunch of cowards he ever saw.

A.Pols

This may be somewhat out of line to say, but I wonder if he'd have any trouble pulling the trigger on a drunk staggering towards him with a steak knife and still 50 feet away, or on someone who he "thought he saw reaching towards his waistband".

Greco

Wow, struggle session perfectly describes the CNN townhall. The thought didn't cross my mind until now.

For those unfamiliar with the phrase, it refers to a public shaming carried out primarily by students and youths against parents and teachers during Mao's cultural revolution.

AK

The Colonel's case in comment #46 is clearly made in the December 8th, 2004 nightclub shooting in Columbus, OH in which 4 people died, in addition to the shooter. During a band's live performance, a mentally deranged former Marine entered the club from the side door, walked on stage with a Beretta 9mm, and killed the band's lead guitarist with a single shot to the forehead. He then fired into the crowd, killing three others and wounding a few more. Here is Rolling Stone's account of the actions of the first responding officer:

"From the backstage area, Officer James Niggemeyer appeared, carrying a twelve-gauge Remington shotgun. He walked past a stack of amplifiers and saw Gale, who had taken a male hostage. Holding his gun to the unidentified man's head, Gale began moving toward the rear of the club. From twenty feet away, Niggemeyer fired once, killing Gale."

The hostage was rescued unharmed. I lived in Columbus at the time and happened to know the county medical examiner who was charged with processing Gale's body at the morgue. He told me, "All I can tell you is that the cop had ice in his veins when he fired that shot. It was spot on."

Ten years later, it was reported that officer Niggemeyer had ongoing PTSD and had to leave the force for that reason. Say what you want about his mental or spiritual fortitude in the aftermath of the event, but in that moment he did his duty. There is no telling how many more lives would have been lost had Officer Niggemeyer not acted. What is absolutely certain is that the body count would not have stayed at four.

catherine

When I think of the cowardly deputy for some reason my mind flashes to the sight of NY firemen rushing into the burning World Trade Center. I can't find any excuse for him, he had a gun and could have used it.

But I also want to know why the people Cruz was living with allowed him to have a weapon. According to the Miami Herald during the time he lived with them 23 calls to the police were made about his behavior.

The Twisted Genius

pl,

An estimate from 2010 to put two police officers in every school was upwards of 10 billion. Some schools may only need one, others need more than two. I think thats a good ballpark figure for up-armoring our schools. Our society has clearly demonstrated that it does not want to pay more to protect, never mind educate our children. Accruing wealth and tax breaks trumps our children's future. (No pun intended.) All the left-right anguish we're enduring now is nothing compared to this one sad fact. I wonder if this coward of Broward County was thinking more of his pension than of the kids.

AK

Laura,

I think the point that Tyler is trying to make is that during that shambolic CNN "town hall", Sheriff Israel behaved 100% like an elected party official with a political agenda (which he is, technically) and absolutely refused to represent himself as a chief law enforcement officer (which he also is, not only technically, but ethically). I watched the event, and it was, to say the least, disgustingly political.

I cannot for a moment entertain the notion that Israel had not yet seen the CCTV footage or known the facts behind his deputy's response when he went on stage at the town hall, and yet he sat there and not only deflected all responsibility from himself or his department, but did so in a reprehensibly sanctimonious fashion. His response should have been then and should be now: "My department failed miserably. Therefore, I failed miserably. I take responsibility for this." Sure, there is more responsibility to go around, but he needs to man up and eat more than his share, if for no other reason than that the stature of his office demands it.

English Outsider


Colonel - that was very far from my mind and I'm sorry indeed that that is how it read, but if you'll permit me I'll hold to my point - no serviceman or ex-serviceman I've ever met would have behaved as that Deputy was reported to have behaved. They might perhaps have done the wrong thing but they'd have done something.

So too with civilians, at least if they'd grasped what was happening and had been in a position to do anything. This occurrence is in fact abnormal.

Therefore it is permissible to enquire whether it's abnormal merely because this one individual was abnormal, or whether there is some factor in the training or in the terms of service of the Deputy that led to him thinking it was permissible for him to act as he did.

Though I did not say so in my comment I believe there might be. The fact that he was not subjected to disciplinary action, and the fact that he was permitted to take his retirement, indicates that his superiors also believe that what he did, though clearly wrong, was within the current rules and regulations.

If that's so then there's something wrong with the current rules and regulations.

I'd also like to hear the Deputy's side of the story, if only to be sure that the reporting of it is undisputed.

Again, apologies for not setting that out clearly in my initial comment.

Mike C

All,

Signal boosting JPB in comment 41: something important that sets all of this in context.

Miami-Dade and Broward counties were actively ignoring juvenile crime to game the statistics, which got them more federal funds.

The source material posted within the article in that last link appears credible.

Also worth noting that Peterson, who stood around during the shooting, had dealt with the eventual murderer more than once back in 2016. It had become policy, at the local level at least, to sweep that person's behavior under the rug.

turcopolier

TTG

In spite of DJT's statements to the unsophisticated at CPAC there is a rational limit for the size of the defense budget. 10-20 billion a year does not seem excessive to me if a different, less aggressive foreign policy were adopted. pl

The Twisted Genius

pl,

I would heartily support a major shift in our national priorities. I think there should be a massive increase in support to improving primary education, including student safety. Hell, the defense budget could easily absorb building the wall and beefing up the border patrol as well as renewing our education system.

turcopolier

Alaric

Whether or not he was afraid is utterly irrelevant. He took the "king's shilling" and swore an oath to protect the people. Do you think all soldiers are unafraid? I have seen many booted in the ass to get them to do their duty. this is especially true the first time out of the barn. read "the Red Badge of Courage" or "the thin Red Line " to see accounts of the transformations that take place with experience. If you do not hold people who have accepted the responsibility to high standards of performance society will simply disintegrate as the hoodlums take over. pl

turcopolier

james

You are a stereotypical Canadian. You actually like being a lapdog for government. pl

turcopolier

james

NRA members are a tiny minority in US Society. BTW, NRA's financial contributions to political candidates are quite small. Look it up. The records are public. What you and other people who are terrified of guns miss is that most Americans support the 2nd Amendment and will not be disarmed. If the US is so terrifying stay north of the border. Stay out of Hawaii and Florida. pl

John Minnerath

I think James would soil his skivies here in Wyoming.

Walrus

Police training changed as a result of Columbine. The practice now is to immediately head for the source of the gunfire and neutralize the shooter fast, period. My son has had this training and its practiced in pairs on a range every so often. Australia adopted this "post Columbine" approach after the Lindt Cafe siege in Sydney.

HOWEVER police members are still subject to the same OHS regulations as the rest of us - all that "safe workplace" BS. Hence I fail to understand how there can be a LEGAL requirement for the Deputy to endanger his own safety (rescue rule 1 - do not become a casualty yourself, etc.).

Having said that, as Col. Lang states, the Deputy had a moral responsibility to act and didn't. I therefore pity him and include him in the casualty list.

I cannot condemn his inaction like the good Colonel because (A) I have not been under fire and (B) In post - deconstructionalist America "Honor" is an outdated concept for the slicky boys who run things and their acolytes. If he had gotten killed they would be abusing him for either not saving more, accidentally killing a kid or gunning down a harmless mental patient who was just acting out, all while doing their best to bilk his wife out of her pension and insurance payout.

To put that another way, I expect a class action is only days away from being started by a bunch of greedy lawyers..

turcopolier

All

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/second-family-comes-forward-alleging-cnn-attempted-steer-narrative-banning-weapons/

pl

Fred

james,

"the viewpoint of the usa as one scary messed up place increases.."

That ought to cut the immigration rate significantly. Remind me again how the US compares to non-s***holes like Venezuala, various states in Mexico or places like Zimbabwe yet people still come her by the millions every year?

"at what point does the usa revisit it's self concept"

That's what the cultural marxists on the left have been doing for 50 years, changing the self concept from individual liberty - and the responsbility that goes with it - to one of victimhood and resentment.

JohnsonR

Clearly the man failed when he was tested and unless he is utterly contemptible (which we do not know - failure itself is merely human) that will likely haunt him for the rest of his life, especially because of the consequences. But like English Outsider, while I'm happy to condemn his actions, I'd prefer to know more before passing final judgement.

He was a police officer, not a military man showing cowardice in the face of the enemy. That is a slightly different situation imo. Settled law over here (UK) is that the police have no duty to protect the public, only to do what they can to uphold the law, preserve the peace and prevent offences and they have discretion in how to achieve that. The police oath here is to that effect ("uphold the law and preserve the peace and prevent offences"). Maybe those things are different over there, and maybe you don't accept any difference between an oath to "preserve the peace" and one to "protect the people".

But I'd like to know what his training and orders were. Bad doctrine certainly can mean that people on the spot are left confused and paralysed, and insufficiently dynamic in response to a rapidly evolving situation. I understand that's pretty much what some of the criticism at Columbine was about, and why policy was changed to emphasise going immediately to the shooter's location. This man should have been trained to do that. Why didn't he? If it was purely fear on his part, then he has no defence and deserves no sympathy or respect. Overcoming fear to do your duty is the basic measure of a man, whether it's obeying orders in battle or sacrificing yourself to protect your family.

If, on the other hand, he had been given inappropriate training or orders then it might be appropriate to have some sympathy for him (though the families of the victim likely won't) even while still condemning him for a disastrous failure of initiative. Not everyone makes the right decision when they have to act quickly on initiative against orders or training.

I don't say it's likely, but it's possible, and the Sheriff's performance doesn't inspire me with confidence in his leadership or his honesty.

Clonal Antibody

He was going by the Police Academy rule book


“Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.”

Police training starts in the academy, where the concept of officer safety is so heavily emphasized that it takes on almost religious significance. Rookie officers are taught what is widely known as the “first rule of law enforcement”: An officer’s overriding goal every day is to go home at the end of their shift. But cops live in a hostile world. They learn that every encounter, every individual is a potential threat. They always have to be on their guard because, as cops often say, “complacency kills.”


This leads to the paradoxical situation, where a police officer will kill an unarmed subject, but wait for reinforcements at the site of an active shooting.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

February 2021

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28            
Blog powered by Typepad