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11 January 2018

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LondonBob

Was Brennan just an approving onlooker is the CIA just better at covering their tracks and/or protecting themselves institutionally? The focus seems to be just on the cabal at the FBI and DoJ.

turcopolier

TTG

"Quebecois?" What is the Northway? pl

Morongobill

Any thoughts on Patrick Fitzgerald being appointed as special prosecutor for this investigation being discussed here, if it happens?

GeneO

Interstate 87?

DC

Comey did NOT, in fact, testify that the entire Dossier was unverified:

"So this latest argument that the FBI relied on a document that Comey has already testified was wholly unverified seems to conflate one claim in the dossier with the entire dossier." --

https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2018/01/02/comey-really-testify-entire-steele-dossier-unverified/

blue peacock

LondonBob

What we know is that both Brennan and Clapper were very active in selling the "narrative", in particular after the election. We also know that Clapper recommended firing Admiral Rogers in November 2016.

What role, if any, they played earlier in the timeline, is yet to be known?

The only reason we know about the FBI/DOJ cabal is because the IG released that information. Consequently we shouldn't conclude they are the only actors in this story. I am willing to bet that both Clapper and Brennan played a significant role. Where in the timeline is more difficult to guess with the limited information that we have.

blue peacock

Yes, Patrick Fitzgerald will be an excellent choice as the second special counsel investigating the national security apparatus. He prosecuted Scooter Libby at the height of the dominance of W, Cheney & Karl Rove in DC.

Lee A. Arnold

You could make your own case better if you start from the fact that law enforcement has had Trump on its radar for decades before 2016. He kept showing up in the vicinity of questionable real estate transactions and known money launderers. The question then would be, how could the FBI ignore the dossier? You are putting yourself through contortions to prove that the dossier was started by Hillary Clinton, and that the dossier put the chain of events in motion, and that "unverified" means "false", and that Comey would have stated in public testimony if there were verifications. All wrong.

This may not be some "Deep State" conspiracy, but the wheels of justice finally creaking around to catch a bad guy.

You're right I'm no fan of Trump, but I'm no fan of Clinton either. I wrote in comments here not long after the election that the Democrats will end up happier by getting a new slate of people while Trump destroys the Republicans. I predicted that Trump would make the Obama-Hillary foreign policy more warlike, Trump would let Wall Street gouge the middle class again, and Trump would surrender foreign trade and the economic future of the U.S. to China. I took heat here for these comments, and I upset both my Democratic friends and my Republican friends with these predictions. And a year later, I am still right about every one of these.

blue peacock
US agencies are obviously aware of all this but the US does things differently. Anywhere else Steele's dossier would have been chucked in the bin.

Unless the Steele dossier was the collaborative work product with partisan elements at the highest levels of US law enforcement & the IC. I suggest those interested in this story focus on the timeline and in particular the period of March/April 2016. The Steele dossier only started to show up around June 2016. The ball got rolling earlier.

Richardstevenhack

That is precisely William Binney's point (the ex-NSA tech director who developed many of the NSA's programs during his time there.)

NSA was able to claim in the Sony hacking case that they directly observed North Korean hackers inside Sony (begging the question of why didn't the NSA intervene).

The fact that NSA in the January 2017 report on "Russian meddling" could only claim "moderate confidence" in the conclusions clearly shows they don't have any data on the alleged "DNC hack".

Based on Craig Murray's statements, whoever was the leaker of the DNC emails may or may not have transferred them across the Internet. They could have been transferred manually via flash drive or hard disk. In that case, the NSA wouldn't have any data on it.

Based on Sy Hersh's audio tape, if Seth Rich was the leaker he apparently used a Dropbox account to which Wikileaks had access. In that case, the NSA could establish the movement of files from that server to Wikileaks IF that server was used in that manner.

In either case, that fact that NSA has nothing concrete to say indicates they don't know. They could easily claim they do without revealing any sources or methods, but they haven't.

Richardstevenhack

Seymour Hersh in his audio tape explicitly said that Russiagate is entirely a CIA disinformation operation being run by Brennan.

Clearly the CIA has been getting help from the FBI - or perhaps Brennan has explicitly used - with their cooperation - the FBI as the "patsy" in this to cover his agency's butt.

Publius Tacitus

Just try reading the actual testimony of Comey rather than pretend to be some OCD Hasidic Rabbi parsing the Torah.

blue peacock
....I was worried very much about being in kind of a J. Edgar Hoover-type situation.

What did Comey mean by a J. Edgar Hoover-type situation in response to a question by Sen. Collins that Lee A. Arnold posted above?

ex-PFC Chuck

People here might like to know that Marcy Wheeler at Emptywheel is at the investigation from the PoV of whether anything shows whether Trump or any of his associates is vulnerable. Her post yesterday offers a pretty good summary of the state of play in that regard.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/01/12/incidental-collection-under-section-702-has-probably-contributed-to-trumps-downfall-too/

Greco

It's a great credit to PT for his meticulousness and sense on the matter. And it's fine to raise questions and to debate it. That said, this discussion is going in circles when we can simply explain this away as a sham.

Rationalizing the Russian collusion narrative is like rationalizing Birtherism. Both are ridiculous theories backed without a shred of hard evidence that would have us believe a foreign agent occupies the Oval Office. And both theories stipulate that once the candidate's illegitimacy is proven, we would have constitutional crisis resulting in a new election: in other words, Hillary Clinton would be president. It's a fantasy for people who can't come terms with the election of a president they find disagreeable. And as far as I can tell, the only ones conspiring to do anything malicious are the ones who continue to perpetuate these frauds.

The Twisted Genius

pl,

The Northway is I-87 from Albany, NY to Montreal. It's named the Adirondack Northway. SWMBO worked at Macys in Albany while in college. She and her coworkers always complained about all the visiting Quebecois trying to pass their money off as equal in value to our dollar. When they were told to go to customer service to exchange their money, they got pissy in a most French way.

mariner

'the role of Alexander Downer'

The information obtained by Downer was overt not covert and would've been reported and processed in the overt stream. It is, apparently, information that somebody wants us to know. Standard gossip for diplomatic drinkiepoos. Of far more interest is Alexander's beguiling, trustworthy, hermaphroditic honey-trap like countenance - you can lean into me George. This must be studied and weaponised. The term for Papadopoulos is Spion Melayu. George thinks he's just bedded the most beautiful woman in the world and simply must tell someone, anyone.

"Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're witty and you're wise;
How handsome are your gauzy wings; how brilliant are your eyes!
I have a little looking-glass upon my parlor shelf;
If you'd step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself."

The Spider And The Fly

J

Uncomfortable questions such as what the FBI thought of the credibility of a 'report' from a 'British agent', with no classification, unlimited distribution, and not conforming to any format, and disclosing high level Russian sources by name ?
I would suggest that the only reason they did not push it out of the window with a broom was because they were ordered to treat it as credible.

J

"..unless the Steele dossier was the collaborative work product with partisan elements at the highest levels of US law enforcement & the IC".
That may be a possibility, but the document contains such dross that I doubt anyone at that level would author it. I suggest that it was something that escaped into the wild by accident, or that Hillary herself was the author, thus presenting all with a fait accompli :)

J

Integer, yes, Alexander Downer is, shall we say, not the sharpest tool in the shed ? If he had a drunken conversation with someone he may have lodged an unclassified report on it, which therefore found it's way to US agencies. I doubt he actually understood the significance of the conversation.

turcopolier

TTG

My wife who is 100% French Canadian in heritage would like to know what "pissy in a very French way" means. pl

DianaLC

I try not to comment here, as I am just a rube when it comes to the twisted working of our national government, but give me a break.

Bernie doesn't even have the intelligence to live like a true socialist. Does anyone with any intelligence--especially in regard to human nature--really believe that socialism and/or communism would ever work for the long run of any government. Please, study some history to discover what became of many of those attempts and what it's like living in the ones still existing.

His young followers are probably the most uneducated/mis-educated generation I have ever dealt with as a teacher.

My bias against Bernie's stated idea of governance is personal, as my great-grandparents and grandparents were smart enough to escape the Bolshevicks to come here.

Why go after Bernie--it would have been a waste of time, money, and effort. His followers would have had a hard time really figuring out how to register to vote or tearing themselves away from their useless endeavors to occupy their time to find out where and how to vote.

blue peacock

Papadapoulos is at best a peripheral player in the Trump campaign. There is a possibility that he was a plant. Apparently he sent out an email as he became an advisor to the campaign about setting up meetings with Putin's advisor's in Russia. No different than Natalia Veselnitskaya who met with Glenn Simpson before and after her meeting at Trump Tower with Don Jr, which now seems like an attempt to ensnare Trump associates to further bolster the Russia collusion narrative.

In any case, IMO, when looking at the timeline, all the minutiae around these later events are less important than the period of February/March 2016 when the FISA violations took place. IMO, Russiagate began then. Trump had already won a third of the delegates to the GOP nomination and he was looking strong in the upcoming Ohio and Florida primaries. An insurance policy was needed.

Knowing who the players were then including the subcontractors, why there were these 702 violations, what were these 702 queries that triggered Admiral Rogers full compliance review, will aid the understanding of the genesis of Russiagate.

Since this is all so sensitive from the perspective of the national security apparatus, the drive to obfuscate must be intense. That is why there will be a lot of resistance both in Congress and at the DOJ to appoint someone like Patrick Fitzgerald as a special counsel to investigate this.

J

Thus implying that George is less bright, or was a great deal drunker, than Alexander. Of far more interest still is the fact that a large number of people are actually congratulating Downer on his brilliant intel coup.

Adrestia

Maybe TTG meant like this? They were always very able of big tantrums, especially the gendarmerie.

But to be honest, the last decades they've grown more and more mellow. Except when its time for protest and to meet and greet the politician or member of management or just because they oppose government policy

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