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08 January 2018

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Patrick Armstrong

OK I'll start. One of the things that I find quite common among critics of the Dossier is that they generally accept that the stories told in it are false but assume that there was some Russian input into it. For example in Ritter's piece here http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/in-the-russian-collusion-debate-whos-fooling-who/ we find: <>
Now Ritter is properly sceptical of the NYT's attempt to remove the Dossier from its (true) pre-eminent position but he can't realise that it's all fake.
I very much doubt there was any Russian official involvement in its preparation and would be surprised if there were any Russian involved at any point in the story. I strongly suspect that the thing was put together by Nelly Ohr and Steele out of bits and pieces of crap some of which would have been supplied by Ukrainian and Baltic disinformation sites. Then presumably polished by other members of the conspiracy.
After all, we only have Steele's word for it that there was Russian involvement and why would we believe anything he said?

Greco

Can we half-jokingly retitle it "Russia-ghazi"? Liberals push "gate" because it recalls Watergate. Using the suffix "ghazi" instead recalls what happened in Benghazi.

blue peacock

Col. Lang

This write-up by Sundance, connects all the dots, and points out the heroic role played by Admiral Mike Rogers in uncovering the plot by the Obama administration in using FISA 702(16)(17) to spy on presidential candidate Trump and his campaign. Admiral Rogers went to Trump Tower a week after the election and spilled the beans to then President-elect Trump.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/08/how-the-fbi-and-doj-intelligence-units-were-weaponized-around-congressional-oversight/

The doggedness of Rep. Nunes has enabled the Congressional committee's to unravel much of this plot. Now, apparently the next shoe to drop is the OIG report, which will set the stage for Congressional demand for a second special counsel to empanel a grand jury and investigate a host of people at the FBI, DOJ National Security Division, etc.

If this is the real story, it is gonna be EXPLOSIVE. So much bigger than any past DC scandals including Watergate. The real story seems to be that an incumbent Presidential administration used the powers and machinery of law enforcement and intelligence to spy on a rival campaign, interfere in an election in cahoots with the media and then attempted to delegitimize a duly elected POTUS. Russiagate was the foil.

In this context, Trump's tweet makes perfect sense.

Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!
Patrick Armstrong

Rogers, BTW, has put in his resignation. Flynn and he know where all the bodies are buried in the perversion of the intelligence business under Obama & Co.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-rogers/nsa-chief-to-leave-expects-successor-this-month-report-idUSKBN1EU1TD

The rumours floating around a year or so ago hat Trump surrounded himself with generals as protection against the (as they said in the USSR) "organs of state security" look more credible now, don't they?

Patrick Armstrong

Drat! Quotation from Ritter's piece didn't make it. here it is

"Seen in this light, the Papadopoulos story is more about a Russian campaign to neutralize a future American president as part of its ongoing effort to undermine American power and prestige than it is about collusion between this candidate and Russia to get him elected."

Peter AU

Mercouris at the Duran has an article on this tweet by the Senate Judiciary. Would this mean the tide is turning?

https://twitter.com/senjudiciary

@senjudiciary
Jan 5
Senators @ChuckGrassley and @LindseyGrahamSC have referred Christopher Steele to @TheJusticeDept for investigation after information reviewed by committee investigators revealed significant inconsistencies in statements provided to authorities

SmoothieX12

He spoke of 240 high level officers who supported him (and I guess helped draft some new geopolitical program) on a number of occasions, including in his acceptance speech. That certainly didn't look accidental.

blue peacock

PA

Yes, in this context it makes perfect sense why Trump chose military people as his top national security team. Rogers can testify unencumbered to Congress in the spring when he is gone. Get the popcorn. This is gonna be some show!

Who knows where this leads? Rep. Nunes apparently has read PDBs that had surveillance information from the Trump campaign but nothing about Russia associated with it. Maybe a time comes when Congress asks the question, "What did President Obama know & when did he know it?"

turcopolier

blue peacock

Yes, Rogers will by then be comfortably enjoying a retired full admiral's pay and perks and will be in a position to crack this whole thing wide open so long as DJT does not want to go after him, and, he won't want to, far from it. pl

blue peacock

Col. Lang

DJT already feted Adm. Rogers.

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/calm-before-the-storm.jpg?w=640&h=526

To quote Sundance:

That night, NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers was seated at the head of the table as each member of the military likely aware -in varying degrees- just how consequential NSA Director Mike Rogers was in fending off the biggest constitutional crisis in the history of the U.S.

A grateful U.S. President, recognizing a great and patriotic man, amid many great and patriotic men. ….And no-one outside that room even knew.

ISL

Patrick Armstrong,

Your points are well taken.

There is a real cognitive dissonance - on the one had, the Russian's are super villains able to control everything everywhere, on the other hand, they are responsible for the incompetent dossier. Having watched RT quite a bit, Russian propaganda is a lot higher quality than US propaganda - it presumes the target of their propaganda has a memory, and actually is fairly knowledgeable. US propaganda (primarily aimed at Americans) seems to assume a grade 3 or lower understanding and a long term memory of about 20 minutes.

I wish US propaganda was a bit more entertaining - we are paying a phenomenal amount for it.

Richardstevenhack

There's this part:

Quote

What gave the Downer cable its import, the New York Times claimed, was that it arrived in the FBI’s hands right around the same time—July 22, 2016—when Wikileaks began releasing thousands of emails sourced to the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

End Quote

While Ritter is correct to point out that the DNC leak has no connection to the Downer cable, it does point to my contention that without the DNC leak - and the DNC/Clinton (and perhaps FBI) effort to turn that leak into a Russian hack - the subsequent Dossier impact would have been much less

Which is why I assert that the DNC leak is a more important subject for official investigation than the dossier. Prove that leak to be a leak and half of "Russiagate" goes out the window.

Given the time frame that Steele has to produce the report, I'd agree that any Russian involvement might be problematic. There still remains the possibility that Steele had some contact with some Russians who fed him some BS with the intent of making anyone who used it look stupid (and maybe got paid for it.)

What they didn't count on was the depth of American stupidity, as H.L Mencken once said.

Lefty

Who will be the next DIRNSA? Looks like we're back to USAF in the rotation.

plantman

I agree with Patrick Armstrong on this: "The real story seems to be that an incumbent Presidential administration used the powers and machinery of law enforcement and intelligence to spy on a rival campaign, interfere in an election in cahoots with the media and then attempted to delegitimize a duly elected POTUS. Russiagate was the foil."

But I wonder if the origins of Russia gate have not yet been revealed?

IMO, it all starts with Brennan whose animus for Russia (he was foiled in Syria and Ukraine) creates a motive for piggy-backing onto the DNC's goofy hacking story. That way he could kill two birds with one stone, that is, Trump and Putin.

Keep in mind, that in his original testimony before congress, Brennan said he referred the case to the FBI.
Isn't that an admission that the buildup for the Dossier started with Brennan??

Account Deleted

Sundance (essential reading these days on this matter) published a take on this suggesting the real aim:

By referring a criminal complaint to the DOJ the Senators are, in essence, forcing the DOJ to outline that material presentations by the FBI, to the committee, were false…. OR, that Christopher Steele is lying. The former is likely, the latter not-so-much.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/05/one-bluff-called-senators-graham-and-grassley-send-criminal-referral-to-doj/

Agree with PA above too - Russians would know how to spell Alfa.

outthere

Paul Craig Roberts reviews the story, and the questions asked by US Rep Jim Jordan. Then he slams Rosenstein (a Trump team member) for "for sitting on his ass while a totally corrupt FBI attempted to destroy the elected president of the United States."
Roberts concludes:
quote
Insouciant trusting gullible Americans who “believe in our government” have no comprehension how totally corrupt “their” government is. It is the most corrupt in the world. The corruption in Washington is really unbelievable. You have to experience it to know it, and those who experience it are part of it and will not tell.

The orchestration “Russiagate” proves that the CIA, the NSA, and the FBI are so corrupt and unaccountable that they comprise the greatest threat to the American people in the entire history of America. The only solution is to break these agencies into a thousand splinters, as President John F. Kennedy intended, and rebuild them from scratch with total transparency. No more protecting their vast crimes under the cloak of “national security.” No classification of any so-called intelligence unless it can pass a unanamous vote of Congress and the ACLU.

The orchestration of Russiagate is proof that the alleged “national security agencies” are an anti-American force detrimental to our survival as a free people. The criminals in the FBI, CIA, and DNC must be investigated, indicted, prosecuted, convicted and imprisoned or freedom in America is forever dead.

If President Trump fails in this task, he will have failed America. Everyone of us will be the victims.

https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2018/01/08/russiagate-turns-originators/

Jack

It looks like Devin Nunes is doing just that. If it weren't for him we wouldn't know about Peter Strzok and his paramour Lisa Page discussing insurance policy with Andy McCabe. Neither would we know of Bruce and Nellie Ohr cavorting with Christopher Steele and Glen Simpson. A lot has already come out and much more will be revealed in good time. There is a slew of hearings that Nunes has scheduled and Rosenstein has agreed to provide him a bunch of documents.

It seems to me they've already covered a lot of ground. Admittedly I have not followed this story closely.

VietnamVet

Colonel,

In most times and places, Russiagate would get the Benghazi treatment; ignore the Rat-Line. But, these aren’t normal times. The Obama Administration was a disaster. Europe is awash with refugees thanks to his wars. The EU is splintering; distancing itself from DC and London City. Germany is next to leaderless. Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton are the reasons Donald Trump is President. Their backers led by Jeff Bezos can’t back down. Fortunes are at stake. If the USA ever returns to a people’s democracy, oligarchs and financiers could up taxed up to 70% of their wealth to build infrastructure and the Empire’s forever wars ended. Heads will roll to prevent this. Russiagate is part and parcel of establishment’s scheme to regain power from the NYC upstart. The ultimate question is whether Generals Mattis and Kelly are sufficient to keep the DOD Pretorian Guard supporting the current President or will Mike Pence be sworn in.

jpb

"Trump surrounded himself with generals as protection against the (as they said in the USSR) "organs of state security" look more credible now, don't they?"

Yea...and the rumors of US Marine Corp helicopters landing at Langley. Who do you suppose floated those rumors and why would they float such a rumor?

IMO...the secrets of 9/11 leave a lot of swamp dwellers wondering about the hangman if they don't back down.

kooshy

Colonel Sorry for OT,
Looks like the American ruling elite have tabled their choice for US' next president. She, a TV talk show personality( one without any sexual harassment so far) with her own book club to her credite and as her most important presidential qualification, supposedly will run against our current reality TV personality president. This new highly qualified presidential candidate is no other than Oprah Win-Fairytale who like Santa throws free cars here and there.

One CNN piece of S* regular pundit, was so excited by Oprah’ few minute-long statements at the Golden Globe last night, he told his fake news network audience, “can we all close our eyes and for a minute, and imagine if that speech was given in Iowa. God saves us all.

IMO,like in the short story by Shirley Jackson "The Lottery" it would be a much better way to choose our next president, and a few congress personalities.

Patrick Armstrong

I think the Saker has the answer
"Furthermore, and at the risk of sounding like a Russian propagandist myself, I would say something which is quite evident, but still hard to believe: the Russians have no need to lie, their propaganda is fundamentally truthful, fact based and logical. There is no Russian equivalent of the Pokemon story. And when the western leaders demand that Russia withdraw her forces from the Donbass, the Russians have no need to make up some convoluted story about how the Russian military is in the Donbass but that these forces are as invisible to the observer on the ground as they are invisible to the satellites in space. The Russians don’t have any need to lie about their operations in Syria because what they say they are doing there and what they are actually doing there is one and the same: liberating Syria from Daesh. I could multiply the examples, but my point is simple: unlike their US American counterparts, the Russians are not engaging in policies which they cannot justify before their own public opinion or before the public opinion of the rest of the planet. Sounds simple? Then why is it that the US seems to be comprehensively unable to say the truth about anything they do?" https://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/10/27/1016020-re-visiting-russian-counter-propaganda-methods-the-saker/

And I would add that, spending the time I do doing what I do, the Saker is right. Russian propaganda/viewpoint is, generally speaking, consistent with reality; US/NATO is not. In fact, once you break through the crust, as most of us on this site have, US/NATO propaganda is just preposterous. Just, for example read anything NATO says about Libya

ex-PFC Chuck

Patrick,
Another good example is the hit piece on the journalists who actually reported from the Syrian war zone by the desk-bound "journalist" Olivia Solon that was published at The Guardian last month. Rather than provide the direct link to it I'll link the response of one of those journalists, the Canadian Eva Bartlett, published on January 6 at Global Research. The link to the hit piece is in the introductory sentence, and Bartlett's debunking begins after a bunch of screen shots of scathing comments on The Guardian's facebook page.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/how-the-mainstream-media-whitewashed-al-qaeda-and-the-white-helmets-in-syria/5624930

blue peacock

It looks like Rep. Nunes has received the FISA application. The Intelligence Committee investigators should now be able to know if the Steele dossier was used in part or what evidence the DOJ presented to FISC to obtain the surveillance warrant on Trump during the election.

The committee was able to review Friday all FBI and DOJ documents on the Trump dossier, former MI-6 British agent Christopher Steele who authored the dossier, and Fusion GPS, the political opposition firm that hired Steele. DOJ also provided Obama administration applications to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which could approve the surveillance of the Trump transition team, according to a source with direct knowledge of the case..

http://dailycaller.com/2018/01/08/exclusive-house-intel-information-has-received-all-docs-on-trump-dossier-from-doj-and-fb-i

LondonBob

Still can't quite figure what the role of Mueller and Rosenstein is. There is the theory that they are a playing a role as misdirection, don't really buy that though.

Mathiasalexander

If you can swing the dumber section of a population that might be sufficient for any purpose.

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