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26 January 2018

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Eric Newhill

TTG #71,

Really?!!??!

It would seem that the FBI may have kept Clinton in the race as a contender by deciding to not bring her up on charges that "anyone else" who did the same thing would have faced.

It would also appear that the FBI attempted to subvert Trump before and after he was elected by accusing him of collusion.

Evidence has been produced. More is promised. Now, the verdict isn't in. Not even in my mind (and I really like Trump). However, there is obviously smoke. Now we need to investigate and determine if there's fire. More over, the smoke is arising from critical load bearing structures of our house and it looks like there may be a fire set by arsonists from within our own family.

The alleged Russian hacking is much less smokey to my mind, but I know very little about the entire topic of cyber security and hacking and have no experience with cyber espionage. I'm just a citizen taking in the news, trying to understand. And I'm telling you that even at my most self-imposed objectivity, I'm just not that excited about the whole proposition. If someone is trying to pique my interest and convince me of something, they are failing. What is the point? That Trump should be kicked out of office? No? Then what? That Russians cyber spy? Anyone who's read a Tom Clancy novel or watched a recent James Bond movie "knows" that. See what I mean? I can appreciate your professional interest in the topic. It must be a great puzzle for you to try to solve. Keeps the old brain gears turning. I can also appreciate that as a patriot, you'd be concerned if, in your professional judgment, the Russians were attacking and damaging our country. Yet there are others with a background similar to yours that totally disagree with your line of thinking. So, again, a citizen like me doesn't know what to make of it. Thus, I fall back on what most of do; did I vote for Trump because Russians influenced me? No. No way. Did the wikileaks cause me to switch my vote to Trump? No. I despised Clinton and everything she stands for and I liked what Trump was saying in terms of economics (where I do have a professional background), on immigration (where I have seen w/ my own eyes the issues involved), on foreign wars (which had already cost me my only son, cost the country $trillions and achieved nothing positive).

However, investigate away; albeit quietly and professionally. I object to the public pronouncements, with certainty, that Russians did it and that they did it to assist Trump and that Trump was in on it.

Seamus Padraig

Assange has said that his policy is first confirm the identity of the leaker before publishing anything. That's why the Borg want to capture him so bad: so they can find out the real sources of all these leaks.

Babak Makkinejad

This is Democrat's payback for Whitewater, no?

Tosk59

A little off topic, but all this APT28, APT29 stuff made me wonder why we never hear much about APT1 to APT27...

Googling found this list of "most active" APTs - https://www.fireeye.com/current-threats/apt-groups.html so mostly seems China, Russia, Vietnam, Iran.

Raises two questions:
a) Aren't there other countries that are similarly "active?"
b) If you look at definition of what an APT is (actors, characteristics, targets, methods, etc.) how come there are no APT designations for the U.S.? Israel? Germany? NATO? And many others? Even if we exempt ourselves don't these countries also target us?

Richardstevenhack

I'm not surprised that TTG swallowed this obvious disinformation story whole hog. I'm also sure he's really disappointed that hardly anyone here is buying into it as he did.

Read the Steemit piece referenced by others above. It's pretty good.

I'll limit my comment to say this whole Dutch story is absolute garbage obviously intended to bolster Russiagate.

It does emphasize my point, however, that without the alleged DNC "hack" - which was a disinformation operation to distract attention from a LEAK - the Russiagate story and the Steele dossier would not have gotten as much traction as it did.

The fact that the FBI never investigated the alleged "hack" but relied on a thoroughly compromised third party to do so is clearly directly connected to the now obvious FBI operation to disrupt the Trump election campaign and subvert the US election.

And thus the alleged "hack" still needs to be investigated by independent investigators familiar with the real issues of attribution and who can investigate the actual actions of *everyone* involved at the time, such as DNC officials and DNC operatives - including Seth Rich - not just the alleged "Russian hackers".

Generalfeldmarschall von Hindenburg

I'm with Ray McGovern on this. Inside job.

Andrey Subbotin

FWIW the buildings "next to Red Square" are a museum, a mall and a cathedral. The closest university building is probably the journalism faculty of Moscow State University, about a kilometer away on the other side of Kremlin.

Eric Newhill

Tosk59 #82,

Right. Additionally, we have organizations like Soros obviously interfering/influencing in US politics in big ways and not a peep out of the MSM or elected reps. Soros is involved in very provable influence ops; ops that are, IMO, very damaging to US culture. The money is easily traced and has been. Soros, himself, brags about it openly. Compare Soros' influence to whatever the Russians are/were doing.

It's too bad that the DNC was hacked by someone and the hack revealed them to be election rigging scumbags. If the Russians were indeed behind it, I'd say that the Russians are friends of the USA/western civ. and they should be thanked, at least in that instance. And isn't that what this is largely all about? Someone pulled the smiley mask off the Borg and the Borg is having a tantrum that their true ugly mean old face is revealed. Someone is going to have to pay for that.


Harry

I didnt expect so many to be skeptical of the dutch story even though i am myself. It seems convenient in so many ways for the IC when the IC is fighting with the Executive. However one should remain open minded - the IC is playing with way more cards visible than the rest of us.

That said lets be clear that the dutch story is currently unattributed and unverified. Im in no hurry so i will wait for corroboration. What i do know is that on its own this tells us on its face that the russians got copies of the emails. It hints that HRCs servers may have let them into the State Dept. Which may be why no one wanted to clarify everything they had. But it does not tell us the Russians gave them to wikileaks. The IC may have that step too but they havnt shown us.

Most of all, why did they start FISA investigating Trump? This would not explain it and the other things i have seen seem like weak tea. Papadopolous?

Im getting some popcorn and waiting for the next installment.

iowa steve

Thanks, TTG.

Although I think most of Russiagate is partisan hooey, I appreciate reading alternative views.

kao_hsien_chih

Eric Newhill,

"However, investigate away; albeit quietly and professionally. I object to the public pronouncements, with certainty, that Russians did it and that they did it to assist Trump and that Trump was in on it."

I think this is the most important thing. That Russians engage in cyberspying or that they are trying to influence domestic affairs in US should come as no surprise to us. I am certain that we do the same and I don't see problem with either in principle, other than that I hope we are advancing our interests with ours and that we can thwart what Russians or others do before they do much harm. But the meme of "Russians cyberspy, therefore Trump" being screamed loudly in public sphere, quite frankly, stinks of crass political opportunism and denialism. If the Democrats don't like the fact that Trump won, they should actually start listening to the American people, especially those whom they don't seem to like, not insist that they can't "really" exist but for Russian cyberspying.

Thomas

"What possible domestic motive could the Dutch have for exposing this story?"

Walrus,

To try and protect their exposed hides from the eventual truth emerging that they were part of the cover -up in the shooting down MH-17.

Anna

"CrowdStrike said it was either the FSB or SVR but didn't know which."
Do you seriously trust the Russophobic Alperovitch? -- a Jewish "feature" at the Atlantic Council? My major Q to you: How come that the classified documents on the US Congress' computers had been at mercy of Awan family for years? Who needs FSB when the US security apparatus has been criminally negligent and spectacularly incompetent? https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-26/anti-trump-fbi-official-identified-leaker-wsj-wapo-reporter
The whole dossier story is suited for cancan production. Time to clean the Augean stables instead of quetching about pernicious Russians.
What had been Kagans' clan representative doing in Ukraine in 2014? -- teaching the Ukrainians "democracy on the march" by supporting and collaborating with neo-Nazis? Or as you write, "Russia sought to sow discord is their creation of online groups advocating for both sides of an issue..." Hilarious.

jonst

No, not really. This kind of thing has become a standard tool to: at a minimum, tie down, and distract, and wound, your opponent. Better yet, in the long run, take him down. See Watergate. Bert Lance et al with Carter. Iran Contra with Reagan/Bush. Whitewater, et al, with Clinton. Katrina et al, with Bush, Fast and Furious/IRS stuff, with Obama. (Throw in Birther as a personal swipe.) Now it is Trump's turn. This is done now because it CAN BE DONE. starndard marketing tool now.

Publius Tacitus

Well, I do hold the clearances and I'm calling bullshit.

catherine

Well you might find this interesting:

The Alfa Bank server pinged Trump's server 2300 times during the campaign...spam or something else?
Alfa is owned by three Jewish Russians- Mikhail Fridman, Petr Aven and German Khan

https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/fbi-investigation-continues-into-odd-computer-link-between-russian-bank-and-trump-organization/index.html

Jared Kushner is the only person in the Trump 'family' I can find who ever met any Alfa bankers.

https://thesternfacts.com/jared-kushner-ivanka-trump-invested-money-with-a-russian-oligarch-d31dfecc0a2d

The Kushners attended a charity event with Abramovich in early 2014 that included representatives from Russia’s Alfa Bank who is under FBI investigation, and the Russian Foreign Minister’s daughter along with numerous Russian oligarchs.
Last week, Bloomberg exposed that event along with Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump’s years long relationship with Kremlin-linked oligarch, Roman Abramovich, and to his family.
Kushner and Abramovich even invested money together in one of his family funds, until he joined the White House staff. Kushner-owned venture capital firm Thrive invests in startup businesses .Thrive accepted investment cash for Artsy.net from Roman Abramovich’s wife. Bloomberg reports:
The couple attended a charity event with Abramovich in early 2014 that included representatives from Russia’s Alfa Bank who is under FBI investigation, and the Russian Foreign Minister’s daughter along with numerous Russian oligarchs''

Per usual--''Three Russian businessmen, Mikhail Fridman, Petr Aven and German Khan have sued Washington investigations firm Fusion GPS and its founder, Glenn Simpson, with allegations that they were libeled in Steele’s dossier.
Read more: undefined/fast-forward/384556/russian-jewish-businessmen-sue-after-being-named-in-spys-trump-dossier/


Joe100

TTG - Thanks for this post. Your quite relevant personal experience is yet another example of why SST is always interesting and has become a primary source of learning for me.

A couple of questions:

1. If the scenario you describe is accurate, I am curious about your views on whether the hackers were a clear part of a Russian government's cyber-intelliigence entity or were they possibly "free agents" with a "hunting license" from Russian government to look for "interesting information" along with the hacker's own interests in stealing funds, selling business intelligence etc.?

2. In either case, would approval by high-level Russian officials likely have been necessary to allow release of the DNC emails?

Regarding the AVID story (whether true or not), it has the benefit of being potentially plausible, given your knowledge of their previous capabilities, which would make it have the appearance of plausibility if it turns out to be just a play by elements under pressure from ten Congressional and DOJ IG investigations.

I must admit that the convenient release timing and John Helmer's excellent investigative work about the Dutch and Australian government behaviors in the MH-17 "investigation" leave me a bit skeptical about this story.

In any case, it remains important to eventually get clear evidence of what did happen - wherever the blame falls.

TonyL

Thanks TTG for reporting this story and gave us your take on this.

Regarding your #68 comment. I am also disappointed to see William Binney went all in with the "forensicator" analysis. We, techies in this field, saw immediately that the forensicator's analysis was full of holes and seem to be written with a siginificant bias, i.e. trying to prove the DNC hack was a leak.

kooshy

Yes, but in my conspritual Middle Eastern mind, this US internal political events, including this Russiagate election hacking, is more for distracting the electorate from demanding and making better choices in their governance than revenge and taking advantage from opponents. Easily one can ask himself what if any and how much political change we have seen or can feel ever since all the political events you listed, including watergate, iran contra etc. IMO, none that matters to us the electorates, or any that can help us to choose better electeds.

Jack

jonst

I agree with you that this "believe us, if only you could see what we see" line from our IC has passed its sell date. Especially after all the lies for so long. At least 50-60 years. Considering this lack of trust in the IC they should be presenting all the evidence. This "sources & methods" guise no longer holds any water as they routinely disclose it to further their info ops on the public.

Even if one assumes that the Russians intruded and collected the DNC and Podesta's emails, they only disclosed the TRUTH. They didn't deceive the American people. Then there is this Trump collusion with Russia to steal the election narrative that has been sold hard by the IC, the media and of course Hillary and the Democrats. Again there has been no evidence presented yet after nearly 18 months of investigation. Considering how quickly they leak even incorrect information like Don Jr. receiving the data from Wikileaks before they were published, as long as it furthers the collusion narrative, doesn't anyone find it odd that there have been no leaks of any collusion by Trump and the Russians with respect to the election.

On the other hand there is more and more evidence of a conspiracy at the highest levels of the IC and law enforcement to exonerate Hillary and to frame Trump.

catherine

''What they do care about is ensuring that the US is rife with doubt and internal discord so that we are unable to confront any meaningful way. ..... For an example of how Russia sought to sow discord is their creation of online groups advocating for both sides of an issue. They actually created two sites which organized opposing protests in Texas''

So the Russians dusted off their old Protocols of the Elders and are using the internal discord tactic? So many plots, so many plotters!....In all this spider webby confusion I think I will just keep asking myself who benefits and which one the plotters will benefit the most.

Protocol V.
''In Order To Put Public Opinion into our hands we must bring it into a state of bewilderment by giving expression from all sides to so many contradictory opinions and for such length of time as will suffice to make them lose their heads in the labyrinth and come to see that the best thing is to have no opinion of any kind in matter political, which it is not given to the public to understand, because they are understood only by him who guides the public. This is the first secret.
11. The second secret requisite for the success of our government is comprised in the following: To multiply to such an extent national failings, habits, passions, conditions of civil life that it will be impossible for anyone to know where he is in the resulting chaos, so that the people in consequence will fail to understand one another. This measure will also serve us in another way, namely, to sow discord in all parties, to dislocate all collective forces which are still unwilling to submit to us, and to discourage any kind of personal initiative which might in any degree hinder our affair. THERE IS NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS THAN PERSONAL INITIATIVE: if it has genius behind it, such initiative can do more than can be done by millions of people among whom we have sown discord''


The Twisted Genius

kao_hsien_chih,

Your comment at #89 makes a very important point and one with which I fully agree. The question of Russian interference in the election along with the DNC/Podesta hacks is totally separate from the question of "collusion" by Trump and/or some of his minions. The Russians can be 100% guilty with absolutely no collusion. I am pretty damned sure the Russians did it, but I'm not at all convinced there was any collusion. I also don't see Trump himself getting personally involved based on his temperament and management style. Of course, I could be wrong about all of this. Those who think it is inconceivable that the Russians would ever interfere with our election are as guilty of crass political opportunism and denialism as those who claim that Trump is without a doubt 100% guilty of collusion.

The Twisted Genius

Anna,

"Do you seriously trust the Russophobic Alperovitch? -- a Jewish "feature" at the Atlantic Council?"

Your animosity towards Jews comes through in a lot of your comments. I find it repulsive.

The Twisted Genius

Joe100,

I am intimately familiar with the frequent use of independent hackers by both Chinese and Russian governments. It's been going on a long time and many of us secretly admired that approach. It's something we don't do. In this case, the hackers appear to act more like Russian government contractors than hackers operating with a "letter of marque." The release of the DNC material appears to be an integral part of the Russian influence op. I am far more convinced the Russian government controlled this than the release of NSA tools. That could be the work of any group of hackers/hactivists and not necessarily Russian.

The Twisted Genius

Jack,

The IC has not claimed any collusion by Trump or his people. The IC also made no claim as to the effectiveness of the Russian interference with the election.

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