The fate of Jerusalem is not a Manhattan real estate deal

 

"... we have taken Jerusalem, the toughest part of the negotiation, off the table.  We pay the Palestinians HUNDRED OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect. They don't even want to negotiate a long overdue peace treaty with Israel," Trump tweeted. "We have taken Jerusalem, the toughest part of the negotiation, off the table, but Israel, for that, would have had to pay more. But with the Palestinians no longer willing to talk peace, why should we make any of these massive future payments to them?" CNN

 

"We are not taking a position on any of the final status issues including the final boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem," Trump said last month as he made his Jerusalem announcement. "Those questions are up to the parties involved. The United States remains deeply committed to helping facilitate a peace agreement that is acceptable to both sides."

Trump's statement at the announcement was intended to reassure Palestinians and the broader Arab and Muslim world that the US was not giving away control of Jerusalem to Israel or forsaking Palestinian claims to the holy city."  CNN

 

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DJT's statements concerning the effect of his recognition of the Holy City as Israel's capital are nonsensical.   The Israelis, the Palestinians, the Europeans and every Muslim in the world understand that by taking Jerusalem "off the table" DJT has effectively eliminated the possibility of a negotiation over the city that would in any way relate to the real world.

 

Evidently DJT thinks that an issue like this that concerns the essential identity and self image of millions and millions of Muslims can be handled as though the adversaries in this dispute are business people in a contract discussion.  In that setting a feature of the proposed contract that cannot be agreed on is removed from consideration so that closure can occur on the rest.

 

Well, pilgrims,  the ownership of Jerusalem is not a hotel or skyscraper deal.  Trump's evident belief that the US has hired the Palestinian people through USAID projects and budget support is altogether incorrect.  His belief that the Palestinians are effectively his employees and therefore must settle for a Bantustan created out of some part of what is left without Jerusalem is delusional.

 

The Israelis and other Zionists, like Kushner and Ivanka, have long held the Palestinians in contempt as inferior beings fit only to be cheap labor in the Israeli economy.  That they could have sold that idea to Trump is the measure of the man.  pl

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/02/politics/trump-palestinian-aid/index.html

Comments

[Seamus Padraig]

All I can say is: good. This will finally kill off the ludicrous idea that the US is somehow a neutral and fair broker of peace in the ME. Our reputation will be undermined all throughout the Arab world--if the whole world. This hastens our departure from the ME (where we never should have been in the first place), and by extension, the entire Eastern Hemisphere. As an old-line, vintage 1930s isolationist, I completely welcome that.

[jpb]

Faust

“‘Say at last- who art thou?’
‘That Power I serve
Which wills forever evil
Yet does forever good.’”

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe'

[D]

“DJT's statements concerning the effect of his recognition of the Holy City as Israel's capital are nonsensical.”

Everything Trump says is nonsensical because he doesn’t possess the knowledge, temperament or mental faculties necessary for the job.

[NancyK]

I think in time you may come to regret your choice, but of course by then it is too late.

[optimax]

I don't think Tromp is low IQ. It's just that he is of ignorant history, foreign policy, basically any subject outside of real estate. He's also a spoiled brat use to getting his own way. Murdoch called Truomp an idiot in the second article down:

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/367183-trump-iranian-protesters-will-receive-great-support-from-the-us-at

Israel has never asked for US approval to assassinate anyone they wanted to eliminate. Israel wants Iran to know the US blowhard president will back Israel in any aggression toward Iran.

[ISL]

Dear Colonel,

Funny - DJT apparently doesn't mind the lack of respect and appreciation for the billions we pay Israel, either.

Actually, not sure after Iraq anyone in the middle east appreciates and respects (fears, yes!) the US anymore. Hard to identify something we did in the last couple of decades that anyone would appreciate. I suppose the Iran deal was a start.... The Saudi royals could appreciate our refueling their bombers, but they clearly view the US as bought.

While the US empire has lasted 75 years and Israel has masterfully manipulated its protection under the US umbrella, nothing lasts forever and as the petro-age comes to a close - exactly which other great power is going to give a fig's leaf for Israeli statehood or survival?

Well, the bible is filled with stories of the Isrealites following the short term game (e.g., that whole Egypt sojourn thing) and not thinking long-term strategery. Worth noting that the stories do not end well - they often allude to massive payments in blood.

[confusedponderer]

james,
re: "trump is delusional - yes.. viewing world issues like some sort of business deal, while getting input from your daughter and son in law who are now especially talented for giving bad advice. oh well"

Likely Trump is often either uninformed or uninterested or bad advised. Then there is the question whether he listens to or understands advice he doesn't like.

Recently I read that senior white house advisors have said that they fear they couldn't control or steer the man when he goes 'full Trump'. I can't make my choice which is worse where.

I recall reading that during the first phone call with Trump Merkel found herself compelled to explain to him where that Ukraine thing is as a country and why it was also interesting for Europe and Russia.

Trump didn't know, and likely he does't care, since he is now allowing US companies delivering arms to Ukraine, as if Ukraine's problem was lack of weapons.

Or that story about when he was asked about the US "nuclear triade" and which part of it was the most important. Trump he didn't understand what was meant and answered that all that counted to him was that nukes are veeeery destructive.

All that is bad enough, and then there are these childish things like Trump telling the world that his "US red button" is bigger than Kim's, and works. Will he be bragging about dick length next?

Or when Trump sent a mighty US armada, with aircraft carriers (one of which costs about as much as about NoKo's entire military budget) to NoKo "to show force". It became embarassing when news reported that in fact that fleet was sailing the opposite direction, to Australia and away from NoKo. What a ... mighty show of force!

That written, Trump has the power of his office, so that he doesn't need a neo-con's, Haley's or Kushner's ill advise to be dangerous. He just being himself may be enough.

[johnf]

Slightly o/T but concerning the possible role of GCHQ in spying on Trump, this spat is worth investigating:

"Claim Trump aide warned of UK spying absurd, says Tony Blair.

ccording to Mr Wolff's account, in Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House, Mr Blair shared the rumour that, during the election, British intelligence "had had the Trump campaign staff under surveillance, monitoring its telephone calls and other communications".

The former PM is reported to have given the impression that Barack Obama's administration had hinted that such surveillance would be helpful."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42561680

The story is at the top of the BBC's website.

[Balint Somkuti, PhD]

What Pres Trump seems to intentially or otherwise forget that all the money spent on palestinians, and egyptians etc. is not a sum from his pocket for all those "local native chieftains" needed for his n+1 real estate deal, not something to make the process of building run more smoothly.

That money is a sort of accustomary tribute. And even a slight hint (not to mention a direct threat of revoking it) makes the other party to lose face in the eyes of the local population. Y'all know the consequences.

For my part I think it was intentional to handle it this way. Probably all involved parties will budge slowly and grudgingly. And at the same time immediately start looking for a new master. Clandestinely of course.

[turcopolier]

eakens

Air defense over the battle space would have to be very good. pl

[paul]

"Is the Theocratic party in Israel in control for perpetuity?"

the theocratic party has never been in control, for most of israel's history is was the (left) Labor Party, and more recently the (right) likud/kadima

the theocratic parties have far less support, but it is growing, when i was living in israel(1999-2003) i deeply involved with some of the groups that became the foundation for the new "religious zionism"

in a few more years/a decade or two the theocrats will be in firm control, but they are not yet, nor have they ever been

[ex-PFC Chuck]

From Uri Avnery a few days ago, Irgun member at sixteen, twice wounded veteran of the 1948 war, peace and reconciliation activist for the past three quarters of a century and still writing wisely and cogently at age 94:

In the early days of the state there was a joke making the rounds. God summoned David Ben-Gurion and told him: you have done great things for my people, make a wish and I shall grant it.

Ben-Gurion answered: I wish that Israel will be a Jewish state, that it will encompass all the country between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River and that it be a just state.

“That is too much even for me,” God said. “But I will grant you two of your three wishes.”

Since then we have the choice between a Jewish and just state in part of the country, or a Jewish state in all the country that will not be just, or a greater and just state, that will not be Jewish.

Ben-Gurion must be weeping in his grave.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/01/the-man-who-jumped/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uri_Avnery

[blue peacock]

If as Col. Lang posits that "No "deal" was ever possible. there will be no "deal," ever."; then in that context Trump's decision on Jerusalem may have a silver lining.

One, it firmly takes the US out of any credible mediating role as the others can no longer pretend that the US is not a partisan in the conflict.

Second, it pulls the mask off the Vichy Arabs, who have pretended to support the Palestinian cause only to collaborate with the zionists.

Third, the fantasy of a 2 state solution now goes away and the duplicitous Europeans with their big rhetoric about human rights are shown for the utter hypocrites they really are.

Fourth, Trump can now back off saying to the zionists and the neocons he's delivered for them.

[Babak Makkinejad]

Arabs lost the Al Quds to Israelis on the field of battle.

They should have the decency to organize and go to war again and again and again until they can recover their loss.

As it is today, they want foreigners - specifically the Christendom, to bail them out of the consequences of their own actions - or, in fact - inactions.

Yes, Trump has made things slightly worse by removing the possibility of Hudna - but you can thank US Congress and the US Electorate for creating the instrumentality of it.

[Jonathan House]

ex-PFC Chuck,
Thanks for posting the link. FWIW, I have sent this Avneri column (the whole thing) to various friends, Facebook and etc.

[different clue]

NancyK,

(reply to comment 30)

If we are still alive without having vaporised in the nuclear war with Russia that a President Clinton would have brought us, I won't regret being still alive. Which means I won't regret my choice.

If the TPP and other Trade Treason Agreements which the Free Trade Traitor Clinton wanted to bring us remain dead, then I will have further cause to not regret my choice.

The fact that Assad remains and will remain in power in Syria because of Trump's break with Clinton's "Assad must go" and Clinton's functional support of the Global Axis of Jihad and the Cannibal Liver Eating Jihadis means that my choice has already helped produce the better outcome in Syria.

If the Democratic Party remains infected and infested with Jonestown Clinties and Jonestown Obies, I will be bitterly disappointed. But I will not regret my choice.
I will still know that I voted my best, and that legitimate Democrats were simply not able to purge and burn the malignant metastic Clintonoma or the Yersiniobama pestis plague infection from out of the party.

[SmoothieX12]

Third, the fantasy of a 2 state solution now goes away and the duplicitous Europeans with their big rhetoric about human rights are shown for the utter hypocrites they really are.

We live in the world of power-politics and geopolitical re-balancing since at least 1999, in reality even earlier. "Human rights" meme today is a sort of a tasteless joke. It was killed by atrocious abuse, the same as "democracy" and "rule of law", among many other simulacra.

[blue peacock]

Arabs lost the Al Quds to Israelis on the field of battle.

They should have the decency to organize and go to war again and again and again until they can recover their loss.

How can they organize let alone actually go to war and prevail, when Islam is at war among it's various adherents?

[blue peacock]

... if he had simply invested his initial stake into an S&P 500 index fund, and continued to re-invested the proceeds minus current living expenses, he would be richer than he is today.

Did you? What do you think is the best performing investment class in the next 12 months?

Hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to financial investments.

[Account Deleted]

Agree 100%

[Babak Makkinejad]

Ask Arabs.

[LondonBob]

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-09-03/should-donald-trump-have-indexed-

Not true, such calculations are based on Trump having no cost of living, in reality he has funded a very expensive lifestyle out of his business career.

Trump is obviously very adept at the sleight of hand, and certainly knows politics is about perception management. He seems to have overcome all the, substantial, roadblocks the establishment has put up. So I hope some of the stuff on Iran and Israel will turn out to be the same empty rhetoric. Then again maybe he is just a product of the extreme zionist environment of the NY real estate market.

As for Bannon, he certainly had his limitations but he was a rare isolationist voice. I do prefer him to the object of his ire, Jared Kushner.

[Joseph Moroco]

I find the I word (Isolationist) a bit of a trap. The pundits will use it to paint those who want a nation that looks out for its own interests and fortress America crazies.

I prefer Neutralist.