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24 January 2018

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JPB

The NYT? You gotta be kidding me, right? But then they may be right that the US was also involved. If so the original tip was passed to the US from Tel Aviv.

Ishmael Zechariah

GeneO,
re:1] Long term what does Erdogan gain by taking Afrin? Sooner or later he will be arm twisted by Russia to give it back to Syria. Same with the Euphrates Shield area he has occupied, and the same for northern Idlib province. How will it sit with the average Turk in the street to give back land that Turkish soldiers died for?

Had the kurds who took over Afrin-it was not 100% kurdish to begin with at all, despite the BS we are served-, gave up their arms and turned the area over to the SAA, this whole operation would not have happened. the kurds are now trying to get SAA (or someone) to pull their chestnuts out of the fire ( https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/kurdish-authorities-call-syrian-govt-defend-afrin-turkish-aggression-report/ ). The SAA is happy to see them roast. Again, the TSK is not in Afrin for land annexation-we are simply stopping the formation of an izzie-Borg sponsored kurdish state. BTW, the banners carried by the demonstrators in that link is quite instructive. Tells you who we are eliminating.
2-re: Will Erdogan go ahead with his threat to go against Manbij next? By doing so he risks retaliation if US service members there are killed or wounded. If he does backtrack on his threat to Manbij, how does he square that with his voters.
The de-facto state in Manjib will be rolled back. It might be rolled back through a grand bargain between the US and Russians, or between all parties, but the kurds and their women warriors will again learn the truth in the old ME maxim: "You cannot consummate your marriage with someone else's tool". If tayyip loses face and loses the election, one way or the other, some of us will be very happy. Cannot happen soon enough.

As far as the "Mediterranean corridor", just look at some of the kurdish maps on the Web. There is a link somewhere in this thread. If they remain land-locked, any "state" they might form will not be viable-they are completely surrounded by populations who detest them.
Patrick Bahzad had posted on the Kurdish issue several years past. Do look it up and read it. The issues are far more complicated than they look.

Ishmael Zechariah

Ishmael Zechariah

Interesting. Another "Long time lurker, first time commenting". One wonders why.
JPB; you were rather selective in what you wrote:
http://www.meforum.org/3838/israel-kurds
You just stopped your "narrative" several decades ago and did not provide a reference. Is it because your "reference" was written by an unbiased analyst named Ofra Bengio from Tel Aviv?
Ishmael Zechariah

Account Deleted

Pentagon: "We're not in a crisis, Turkey is an ally, and we're going to work with them"

Do they read the Turkish press?

"..the U.S. is now the closest, greatest and most open threat for Turkey. It is an enemy country."

and

"The İncirlik Base must be shut down immediately"

https://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ibrahimkaragul/us-is-the-enemy-for-turkey-one-day-thousands-of-people-will-siege-incirlik-as-well-2042300

JPB

Yes I dealt mainly with the history. But as you know Erdogan and Bibi had a reconciliation in June 2016 after the rift in their relations due to the Gaza Flotilla raid. Or maybe you and most Turks were never informed of that. Did your MSM ever print Erdogan's approval of that agreement and the re-establishment of full diplomatic relations?

I don't know of Bengio, but thanks for the link. I was not aware of Ocalan's anti-semitic statements that Bengio quotes. It does not appear to be all propaganda as there are many Arabic and Turkish press citations, plus from the west including Seymour Hersh. But I think Bengio is wrong about PJAK. I believe it was much more likely to be the Iranian branch of the KDP.

And there was never need for me to use a source from Tel Aviv. It was an open secret that Ocalan lived in a Damascus villa for over a decade. Same for the fact that Hafez Assad established PKK training camps in the Bekaa Valley. 10,000 PKK fighters went through that camp. If you want references, just google "ocalan damascus", or "PKK Bekaa", or check the Wikipedia entry for "1982 Lebanon War" in regards to the PKK fighting alongside the PLO against the IDF. This is not and never has been a big secret.

Balint Somkuti, PhD

Dude, no need to get personnal.

Multiethnical states with opressed minorities fall apart. As simple as that. Hungarian Kingdom is a good example. If some of your minorities want to seccede they will. Some will not.

Kooshy

“Multiethnical states with opressed minorities fall apart.” Yes that’s is a problem, but, you and we all know, the most oppressed people in any multiethnic state in Middle East are the Arabs of apartheid state of Israel, I am sure what you describe is the eventuality of the Israel project.

Tom

@Imshael
I quote you: "If tayyip loses face and loses the election, one way or the other, some of us will be very happy. Cannot happen soon enough." It is all very complicated. I thought Erdogan was the first Turkish politician - apart from Öcal - who made some real steps towards reconciliation with the Kurds. I also believe the PKK is no less to blame for the flame up in the Southeast as Erdogan. In fact I think in many ways Erdogan has been pushed into a corner. The West never gave him the chance that he - in my eyes - would have deserved. I further believe Turkey has no choice but to intervene in Afrim. The US needlessly inflamed the situation by offering the YPG (PKK) statehoood in all but name.

turcopolier

kooshy

Israeli citizenship held by Palestinian Arabs is a farce. They are not treated as fellow Israelis anywhere in any way. I have personally seen this in action many times. They are treated in much the same way that Blacks were treated in the US South at the height of Jim Crow. Druze, Chechens and other Circassians who sided with Israel from the beginning ARE treated as equals by the Israeli Jews. pl

Kooshy


Colonel, thank you, I have been told by Israeli migrants in LA (who work work in construction sub contracting) that the Ethiopian black Jews whom they call Kushi whom mostly are doing the hard labor jobs in Israel are even treated worst and more racially .

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