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12 January 2018

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LeaNder

You covered a lot of ground, more than i will comment upon.

outthere @29, concerning Ed Herman, yes odd, to watch a standard theme of left complaints surface on the right as seemingly new nutshell coinage or neologism: Fake News*. The same happened with anti-globalization shifting from left complaint to the right as central theme.

But can Herman's article really serve to deal with 2 and 3 in Pat's no doubt provocative list: pro-European Ukrainians (Tom asks should they be reduced to Nazi-sympathizers?)**, the Borg, the Empire on the Potomac as new Rome, empire resistant Iran. Did I forget anything?

* admittedly news coverage in the US post 9/11 was one of my earliest obsessions...news standards, facts versus opinion and so on.

** interesting question. ... Should Europe finance Ukrainian debts out of his diverse pots, as Soros suggested? What about Greece et al's debts? Who should pay for those debts however elegantly indirectly? European taxpayers, just as in the 2008 banking crisis? They seem to prefer to revolt just as in the US. ...

turcopolier

Blake

You cleverly write of deposed political figures that the Left loves and treasures in memory. In Leftworld the CIA deposed all these saints and replaced them with the "monsters." Clever fellow you are. The trouble with that theory of history is that the "monsters" did not make these countries poor. These countries are, or were poor and hopeless because of the collective malaise built into the mentality of the masses there. pl

turcopolier

Blake I have no idea if people in the military share my opinions. I have been retired a long time and do not communicate with active duty people. pl

turcopolier

Larry Kart

I thought it was from "Porgy and Bess." Sorry. pl

charly

For what reason would you confiscate money that illegals earned in a morally right way? Especially because it is a problem that is easily solved by illegals by using an underground bank.

Wunduk

To complete the List of inconsistencies with regard to Crimea: These who cry Foul Play conveniently forget the Kosovo - in ohne Part of Europe it is good to Separate some Territory from a State deemed unable to Governors it justly and to the Benefiz of the local Population in another Part this is unacceptable.
I think you are right about questioning the myth of fighting russian personel in Donbas, Not the presence.
On soleimani : he is under un sc Travel ban until 2020 But he Visited moskow in 2015, 2016 and 2017. pointing out inconsistencies in the implementation of Chapter vii Resolution is fair for all. The Arms Embargo against ISIL should get same amount of Publicity.
http://www.conflictarm.com/download-file/?report_id=2568&file_id=2574

LondonBob

The rebels did get some regular help at the battle of Ilovaysk, but have been largely uneeded otherwise, from what I have read.

So Perdue are and Cotton are both saying Durbin is full of shit, like I said Trump never said it.

turcopolier

LondonBob

If Trump had said "hellhole" the reaction would have been the same. BTW if a lot of these places were not what Trump called them these people would not be desperate to come here. pl

C Bridge

From my experience usually trackhoes(edit tried to turn it to francophones).Sometimes backhoes,but a lot of manual labor wherever we came from.

English Outsider


LondonBob - I think we're throwing stones from inside the greenhouse.
You'll remember the opening scenes of Tom Wolfe's "Bonfire of the Vanities" in which an American driving in New York takes a wrong turning and finds himself in quite a different world. I've gone wrong driving in London once or twice and have seen much the same transition. Scary, if you've got family with you. I think it's much the same in parts of some other English cities.

That's setting aside the squalor of the drug areas in our cities, towns and villages. Pavement areas of cafes with addicts applying tourniquets and injecting in plain view as they sit at the tables. Runners back and forth. Dealers waiting outside schools for the children to come out. Notices on village greens warning parents not to let their children play unsupervised because needles are left lying around. Then there are our cardboard cities and the surprising number of people who can find nowhere to sleep but in shop entrances or on the pavement. Add to that the vandalism one sees here and on the Continent - shattered windows or phone booths, overturned benches and the like - and there's a lot to pretend isn't happening if we're to think ourselves much different.


It's off topic but weren't both sides in the Ukraine helped from outside? Advisers, "volunteers", mercenaries, war tourists, intelligence, equipment, and sometimes it seems, as in Debaltsevo and in LLovaisk, direct Special Forces or artillery support.

As far as meaningful assistance went the Russians came late to the party in the Donbas and it was always clear they were prepared to do no more than assist in holding the fort. It's less obvious what our side thought it was up to. Granted, the initial resistance must have taken Western military advisers by surprise, but after the early disasters it must have been obvious that the Ukrainian Army, regulars or street fighting Neo-Nazis, wasn't up to the job and wouldn't be. Yet the carnage continued, with our encouragement, and presumably under our direction or at least advice.

Either our people didn't have competent military there who could assess the situation, which is surely unlikely, or they didn't give a damn as long as they could prolong the crisis. We tend to focus on the suffering of the Novorossians, but the many thousands of Ukrainian casualties are more eloquent testimony to either the incompetence or the callousness of our people who were involved. As far as the proxy war component of the conflict went, and I believe it went quite a way, then in plain terms we screwed up our own proxies more than we did the opposition.

LondonBob

I was reliably informed at the time that the French and Germans wished to see a peaceful negotiation, whilst it was the US administration that pushed for the ATO and got their way.

English Outsider


London Bob - presumably we did not add our voice to that of the French and the Germans?

English Outsider

" I have seen precisely zero evidence of any involvement of the regular Russian military in Novorossia."

Since you lived in the Ukraine you'll have much better knowledge. The SST search engine shows no comments from you at that time so might I ask if you have further information?

There were assertions that there was artillery fire across the border on one occasion, and that there were Russian Special Forces in Debaltsevo. Advisers on both sides. Claims that young Novorossian volunteers were sent to Russia for training in the early days, leaving the older men with at least some military experience for the fighting.

Might I ask, is clarifying such details going to have to wait until later, or are the facts now securely established?

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