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18 December 2017

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confusedponderer

Decameron,
I agree and also wonder if that isn't a consequence of Erdogan's recent Islam conference in Istambul ... if so, it would not surprise me.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/organization-of-the-islamic-conference-gathers-in-istanbul-for-jerusalem-124024

High-level representatives, including some heads of states from the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), will come together on Dec. 13 in Istanbul at a summit to consider a joint stance against United States’ recent recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Turkey, as the term president of the OIC, will host leaders from Muslim-majority countries on Dec. 13, with a joint position of Muslim countries to be announced under the title of the Istanbul Declaration.

The move comes after U.S. President Donald Trump instructed the State Department to move the U.S. Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, in line with the 1995-dated Jerusalem Embassy Act.
...
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu told private broadcaster NTV on Nov. 12 that some Arab countries have failed to sufficiently repudiate Washington’s recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s undivided capital because U.S. President Donald Trump “scares them.”

“It seems that some Arab countries refrain from challenging Trump,” Çavuşoğlu said.

However, he promised that a “strong statement” on Jerusalem would emerge from the OIC extraordinary summit in Istanbul on Dec. 13.

‘Strong message to be issued’

“A very strong message will be delivered from the summit,” Çavuşoğlu said, adding that this message will stress that the decision taken by the U.S. unilaterally breaches international law, and will call all nations to stand against it while also calling nations to recognize the State of Palestine.

“If we don’t defend Jerusalem today, when will we defend it? If we don’t defend Jerusalem, one of the three most sacred places of Islam, what will we defend?” he stated, hinting that the text would cite East Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Palestine with pre-1967 borders.

Ah well. A UN debate is something that's "rather strong a message", and certainly some thing Israel has never liked, but then, it's just diplomatic talk. Action following that talking I don't really expect.

The folks may be scared of Trump, but they probably are also scared of Netanyahu.

Babak Makkinejad

Erdogan has modeled himself after Richelieu; except that for Richelieu the interests of France were paramount, for Erdogan the interests of Erdogan.

confusedponderer

Erdogan has his own style. It's not a good one IMO.

Some time ago a german comedian named Böhmermann made a crude, insulting and nasty joke song on Erdogan. Erdogan wasn't happy about that.

It was in the news this week that apparently two turkish parliamentarians, close to Erdogan, felt it must be done something about such vile insult of the leader, and of turkey itself, and so they hired (and likely armed) turkish biker goons of the 'Osmania' criminal gang to beat the man up near his home.

As bad as it was, it didn't happen since cops learned of that and had Böhmermann go in hiding for a while for his safety. That's pretty much ... hmm ... extending domestic repression to foreign countries?!

Another report was that Turkish-Germans working in german public offices were spying on Turkish asylum seekers and reporting to the MIT and/or whoever else on them.

http://www.dw.com/en/turkey-spies-betraying-asylum-seekers-in-german-immigration-offices/a-40974950

Then take his random arrest spree of folks, accusing them of whatever, and using them for, well, 'human trafficing', or call it 'hostage style prisoner swap', whatever you prefer. Iirc the Turks arrested US Pastor Andrew Brunson for, well, nothing and offered to set him free if the US extradite Gülen to Turkey.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/hostage-style-prisoner-swap-critics-slam-erdogans-comments-jailed-us

Erdogan recently suggested to Greece that he thinks the 1923 Lausanne treaty borders are no longer valid - the folks then didn't know what they were doing - just as if he wanted to undo WW-I outcome. What a wonderful NATO ally he is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lausanne

Today I read that the Turks opened criminal probes on two US prosecutors, who work on the case of an Iranian-Turkish man named Reza Zarrab, who may tell nasty things about Erdogan, Turks & Iran deals and, while at it, about gold trading, sanctions evasion, smuggling, money laundering and/or money washing etc. pp.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/245890-turkey-opens-criminal-probe-against-us-prosecutors

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/europe/erdogan-turkey-iran-sanctions.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42189802

IMO all of that is rather scummy.

It reminds me of that silly US or so journalist who asked Putin a difficult 'cunning ploy' question:

"Imagine you're at the sea, and see two men drowning, the head of Ukraine and Lord Erdogan - who yould you rescue?" Putin answered drily that that was a really difficult question, and that it was ignoring that there are folks who don't want to be saved.

Richardstevenhack

If the US has veto power in the UNSC, how likely is it that this Resolution will pass? I would imagine not very. It still has symbolic value, I suppose, but otherwise it's a waste of time.

Besides, Israel and the US simply ignore any Resolution they don't like. Israel has ignored, what, over a hundred or more UNSC Resolutions, not to mention World Court decisions?

What the UN needs to do is nullify their 1947 decision to partition Palestine (which they had no legal authority to do as determined by their own Subcommittee which was tasked to determine that), declare Israel an illegal state, and re-assert control over the entire territory with a goal of creating a bi-national Palestinian-Jewish state.

Sounds insane, I realize, given current conditions, but it's the only solution to the Palestine issue.

No two-state solution can possibly work given Israel's relative military strength to Palestine's. The first rock thrown over the border in Israel would result in Israel declaring war against the putative Palestinian "state" and bombing the crap out of them without having to worry about being called "apartheid" since Palestine would be a "state."

Richardstevenhack

Yup. The US vetoed the Resolution - the other 14 UNSC members voted for it.

RT's report on the vote:

US vetoes Security Council vote, 14 other members back resolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YytFdQ2HYdU

Walker

Thank God for Israel!! They're the only ones among our fair-weather friends who are backing us on this.

Lyttenburgh


Trump (and/or whoever advised him on this) did something incredibly stupid.

Btw – have anyone really took their time to read the text of this “recognition” (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-trump-jerusalem/)?

“It was 70 years ago that the United States, under President Truman, recognized the State of Israel. Ever since then, Israel has made its capital in the city of Jerusalem — the capital the Jewish people established in ancient times. Today, Jerusalem is the seat of the modern Israeli government. It is the home of the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, as well as the Israeli Supreme Court. It is the location of the official residence of the Prime Minister and the President. It is the headquarters of many government ministries.”

And from the bill 257 (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr257/text):

Section 2. Finding
(10) Civil life is entirely present in Jerusalem, and all government institutions and related frameworks are also present, including the Knesset, the Bank of Israel, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Prime Minister’s and President’s offices, and the Supreme Court.

This kind of wording and enumeration of all these institutions is important. Why? Because all of them are located in the Western Jerusalem. Neither in Trump’s speech nor in the text of the bill there any mention of the Ministry of Justice (which is located in the Eastern Jerusalem – only the Supreme Court is in the Western), or Police HQ (also in the Eastern Jerusalem). I.e. – all of it looks like that the initial plan was to recognize the Western Jeruslem as the capitol of Israel – not the whole city.

And you know what? Russia did exactly that this on 6 April 2017 – and also recognized the Eastern Jerusalem the capitol of the state of Palestine. There was zero kipesh after that announcement.

To confuse the things even more – both the speech and the bill assume the “Two States” solution (i.e. it mentions direct talks on the future borders between Israel and Palestine), which kinda negates all intended pro-Zionist effect that could have been generated by such LOUD announcememnt.

Next, from Trump’s speech:

“That is why, consistent with the Jerusalem Embassy Act, I am also directing the State Department to begin preparation to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. This will immediately begin the process of hiring architects, engineers, and planners, so that a new embassy, when completed, will be a magnificent tribute to peace.”

How can one not to facepalm upon hearing/reading this? Ahem, you might know, Mr. President, that there is already a (General) Consulate of the US of A in Jerusalem – which size and location is more than enough for all possible needs of doing ambassadorial… things. Why the need to construct a new building from the scratch? Why not jus change the plaques in both the Consulate in Jerusalem and the (current) embassy in Tel-Aviv? What – not LOUD enough for you? Or, maybe (maybe!) Trump already puts the whole thing on a back-burner and prepares a retreat for himself with this vague promise to open a new embassy “when completed”. You know, like in that Eastern tale with a punchline – “And in 10 years either me, or sultan or this horse will be dead”.

So, in reality, Trump not only dissed Arab/Muslim world, his much more mellow European “strategic allies” – he also failed to deliver to the Zionists. There is “recognition”, but no embassy – and there wouldn’t be one in any foreseeable future. Gevalt-gevalt! ;)

P.S. SC vote went predictable – one vote against (US) and veto.

turcopolier

Jack

And Haley said that the US will not forget the insult of having the UNSC vote against us. Childish. pl

LeaNder

Lyttenburgh,

I am aware by now that Russia already opted for a more clearly defined recognition. ... Also of suggestions to simply exchange the "signifiers" on the General(?) Consulate of the "US of A" in Jerusalem. (semi-irony-alert:) But, I have two things on the back of my mind here: The size of the US embassy in Baghdad, and isn't the present decider a builder too, who might want to make the US representation more optically and spatially impressive, maybe even more then his predecessors would have? In a nutshell: although The Donald decided to cut State expenses more generally he still may have a builder's soul.

https://jru.usconsulate.gov/our-relationship/policy-history/u-s-consul-generals-residence/

To "facepalm" or not "facepalm", that's the question. I was admittedly never aware of the word Fremdschämen. Surely always of the difference between feeling shame for myself versus feeling it for others. But interesting it was selected word of the year in Austria. But would I ever, never mind if felt concerning people more close to home, so to speak, versus the larger world out there express it with the gesture Wikipedian's choose? The standard frown comes to mind as more spontaneous expression.

But interesting, word of the year 2010 in Austria via the Russian Wikipedia version here. Simply copied from the English version I guess.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facepalm

Немецкое слово Fremdschämen, означающее чувство неловкости за кого-то другого, что является некоторым аналогом фэйспалма как эмоции, получило титул «Слово-2010» в Австрии[2].

******
It's interesting though, that Wikipedian's choose the accompanying image of Henri Vidal's Kain. Was there or wasn't there ever a dove on his head?

Decameron


Your detailed response raises interesting points and other issues.  Thanks. In truth, Netanyahu, Naftali Bennet and the like don't want a two-state solution--never did and never will. Likud's charter is a Jewish state
from the sea to the Jordan River. I don't believe they ever changed from that view.  The UNSC veto was a given -- but now, two times in one month, 14 nations denounce the United States posture.   IMO, the Israeli right thugs want an excuse to escalate their
violence against Palestinians; they would like another Nakba, and are disappointed that Palestinians haven't already fled, are too quiet, too peaceful these days.  The Trump provocation serves the rightists' needs. 


The Russian precedent (recognize both West Jerusalem and East Jerusalem) from April was reiterated in December in a Foreign Ministry statement:  “We reaffirm our commitment to the UN-approved
principles for a Palestinian-Israeli settlement, which include the status of east Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state. At the same time, we must state that in this context we view (sic) west Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.”
 No blood in the streets after the Russian announcements this year. RT says that Russia would recognize (not"view") West Jerusalem ONLY if East Jerusalem is the recognized capital of the recognized Palestine.


Why aren't the Palestinians and Arab street reacting to the Russian announcement?  Russia cites international law.  Trump cites American proclamations and doesn't even get that right.  In
the 1940s, Secretary of State (Gen., Retired) George Marshall disagreed with Truman. He would disagree with Trumpman.  The Joint Chiefs of Staff in the late 1940s issued many memoranda warning about the bloody consequences of Truman's decision.  Yes, wars
did result, as Marshall forecast -- in fact, the significant wars since 1945 have been -- where?  for how long?


Russians recognizing East Jerusalem as the capital of the Palestinian State is consistent with the UN General Assembly's recognition of Palestine.  
Commentators from former US Ambassador Kurtzer to Saudi Prince Turki bin Faisal have said that Trump should recognize East Jerusalem as the Palestinian state's capital. 


https://www.rt.com/news/383777-israel-russia-capital-jerusalem/


Russia will recognize W Jerusalem as Israel’s capital only ...

www.rt.com

Russia will recognize W Jerusalem as Israel’s capital only if E Jerusalem becomes Palestine’s – FM

LeaNder

sorry Decameron.

ex-PFC Chuck

Alastair Crooke pessimistic on how this will turn out:

In sum, Nasrallah, backed by Iran, and in parallel by Egypt’s Sunni religious leadership of al-Azar, by Turkey (taking the Caliph’s mantle) and many others, has redefined President Trump’s Art of the Deal ploy -- not as one robbing the Palestinians of the heart of their cause, but as the re-ignition of the long struggle of all Muslims and Christians for Jerusalem, and all, for which it stands.

The American ‘ruling interests’ – after a long series of failures in the Middle East – will not abide yet more: they will retch at the thought of Israel challenged in this way; of Saudi Arabia humiliated and at Hizbullah and Iran in the vanguard of a regional campaign for Jerusalem, and for Palestine – and by implication, against those who have been seen willing to normalise with Israel.

A Bad Moon is rising: America is polarised at home; unitive government has splintered into departments at odds with each other, and with officials leaking on each other; with fake news abounding; with Congress gridlocked, and with American social and political fabric tearing apart. Against this background - can a president, concerned that he might be removed from office, and beset still by hitherto hidden ‘ruling interests’ now dragged out from the shadows into the public glare for their tawdry schemes, resist the march toward war – the original question posed by Paul Craig Roberts?

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/12/18/bad-moon-trouble-rising.html

Bill Herschel

If there is even a shadow of a hope anywhere, it is in this tweet from Donald Trump:

"The train accident that just occurred in DuPont, WA shows more than ever why our soon to be submitted infrastructure plan must be approved quickly. Seven trillion dollars spent in the Middle East while our roads, bridges, tunnels, railways (and more) crumble! Not for long!"

I truly wonder what prompted him to write this and what it means. But if it can be taken at face value, it means that a) no more military intervention in the ME (which of course our actions seem to contradict: troop surges in Afghanistan and Syria, but probably no war on Iran) and b) certainly no war on the Korean penisula.

Or, as b would have us believe, is there a military junta running the show that does not answer to DT? Or that circumvents him in some way? Trump has said most recently that he will "take care of" NK's ballistic missile advances. We have not heard too much about "Rocket Man" recently or "fire and fury and, frankly, power [the full quote]".

We have heard in his tweets a constant drumbeat of praise for the stock market. The "Trump Market" if you will. He will not sit idly by and let this go under.

Who's in control?

LeaNder

Decameron, more generally, I was wondering why you label DW's English section as "From DW (Deutsche Welle Akademie)"? But forgot about it after.

Anything about the academy more generally that bothers you? Or simply an accident? Something more specific?

http://www.dw.com/en/dw-akademie/about-us/s-9519

Superficial look: A specific dislike of the used headline/slogan on top? It's charts and labels around free press and the respective labels and the labeling institutions. The Media Navigator? Media literacy? ...

http://akademie.dw.de/navigator

If you have more general suspicion concerning the world's more general free press labeling institutions and/or the discussion by Laura Schneider of the limits of the Media Freedom Map in her 2014 paper, I might even read it. Not least since objectivity was on the top of my mind in the early post 9/11 universe. Hasn't really gotten any better since then:

http://www.dw.com/en/analyzing-media-freedom-rankings/a-17730692
pdf:
http://www.dw.com/downloads/28985486/mediafreedomindices.pdf

Vaguely having the German-Turkish dispute not only around jailed journalists in mind here.

Or do you object to their media literacy guidelines for the academy's trainers? The idea of training journalists more generally? ...???

Pdf:
http://www.dw.com/downloads/38871639/dw-akademiemilguidebookall-materials.pdf

Babak Makkinejad

Toleration is a learned behavior.

Every time a TV series in Iran depicts some evil doers that have an accent, or belong to this or that profession, there is wave of protest against "the deliberate and malicious depiction of an otherwise honorable and upstanding profession or region" by its members.

The only safe targets left now are Iranian physicians.

Walker

From Haaretz:

The Israeli mission to the United Nations is . . . working to prevent embarrassment to the United States

We have no better friend.


turcopolier

walker

"A love so strong it could not let us go ..." Ah, no, some Southerner said that of the north. pl

J

My inquiring mind wants to know why an Israeli cargo aircraft was allowed to take off from Atlanta airport during the power outage when all other flights were grounded.

What was the cargo and/or persons onboard?

So the air firm is connected to the Israeli government, hmmm. A mossad flight? So what is DHS, DIA, and CIA to make of this Israeli flight???


J

The Israeli cargo aircraft flew into Atlanta from Mexico, and it's destination from Atlanta was Liege Belgium.

Decameron


From Decameron: The Academy identification is from DW's website, and was used to assist readers
who want to look at original source material. 

Henshaw

My inquiring mind wants to know if this Israeli cargo aircraft has any connection with reports on Voltairenet of a curious Israeli project in Argentina http://www.voltairenet.org/article198968.html

Where did it fly into Mexico from?

J

14 Dec Tel Aviv to Liege Belgium. Liege to Mexico City
15 Dec Mexico City to Atlanta. Atlanta to Liege.
16 Dec Liege to Mexico City.
17 Dec Mexico City to Atlanta. Atlanta to Liege.
18 Dec Liege to Larnaca Cyprus. Tel Aviv to Liege. Larnaca to Tel Aviv.
19 Dec Liege to Oslo. Oslo to Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv to Liege.
20 Dec Liege to Tel Aviv. Tel Aviv to Liege.

LeaNder

Sorry, Decameron, it wasn't meant to be criticism. But it confused me somehow. Irritated me, if you like.

Yes,I noticed there is a link to the academy on top. There is also a link to shift to one of the other 30 language departments. Lyttenbourg, for instance, could easily shift to the Russian section. He simply needs to enter Jerusalem there and check the output/articles of the Russian section. Babak could see how biased the "German Wave" is on Persia in this and other contexts. As others could. Not enough emphasis on Europe beyond English, French and Greek? You miss New Europe vs Old?

******

I worked for the Deutsche Welle shortly, a co-student may still work for the academy, she worked in the Chinese section before. I wasn't then and I am not now aware of the close relation between the different editorial language sections with the academy you seem to be suggesting, at least in everyday work in the respective editorial departments it doesn't seem to make the least bit of sense. That's why I asked. You may be referring to something beyond my present horizon. Understand?

Anyway in a nutshell: this is clearly the result of the work in the English language section and not related to the Academy. Other than based on basic rules?

I am trying to understand your choice. That's all.

Anna

Seems that Israel/US have their response to the (illusory) two-state solution:
http://yournewswire.com/atlanta-airport-blackout-nukes-israel/ "Atlanta Airport Blackout Was Decoy For Transporting Nukes To Israel:"
"With the outage leading to both the FAA and Atlanta’s mayor ordering the suspension and grounding of all inbound and outbound flights, one mysterious flight was allowed to land and take-off at the airport without any security checks during the lockdown... The cargo plane in question is owned by Cal Cargo Airlines, a Jewish owned company based out of Israel who specializes in the transportation of nonstandard cargo... Cal Airlines owns another business known as LACHS, a company that operates at the Atlanta airport, loading and offloading cargo planes ... LACHS boasts the ability to load and unload places without the presence of a customs agent. Meaning no one outside the companies own employees were aware of what was inside the plane as it either landed in or took off from the airport. ... no mainstream media outlet will likely investigate or question just why this one plane was allowed to leave the airport during yesterday’s outage. "

Anna

Israel -- censoring the Americans at the source: https://www.israelandstuff.com/want-to-defend-israel-heres-a-lesson-in-hasbara
"The new app is already a smashing success. Within only two weeks, it was downloaded by over 6,000 people in 27 countries around the world... It’s genius just how simple the idea behind the app is. “Companies, such as Facebook, remove content following reports from the community. If there is only one person reporting it, he usually gets told by Facebook the content doesn’t meet the criteria for removal. If 300 report it—the content is removed immediately. As soon as content inciting against Israel is posted online, we send a message through the app and all of its subscribers immediately report it.” Anyone who wants to help can simply download the Act.il app, which is available to all smartphone users worldwide, and after a short registration process take join the international community that is fighting against attempts to delegitimize Israel and the lies being spread by the BDS Movement. ... “Students from the University of California (UC), where there are a lot of anti-Israel activists, came to us for help ... We organized a joint campaign, in which we opened Skype chats at the IDC and at UC campuses and we let random students just sit down and have a conversation with someone from here [Israel]."
And now the Israel-firsters have their dream-come-true idiot Nikki Haley procuring for Israel at the UN.

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