« How Do Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles Work? - Space.com | Main | A roadster in Mars orbit? »

01 December 2017

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

kooshy

"not about collusion anymore but about obstruction of justice" obstruction of justice? really, why? what justice you think was obstructed here? firing of Comey? if there was a collision with russian and Mueller knew it wouldn't Mueller leak it after now to imbalance more people in and around administration, to have them come in for more plea bargain. IMO, this case is dead en d except for the anti Trump circles and media

Dr. George W. Oprisko

What I don't understand in all of this........

Is............

Why Trump hasn't simply issued a blanket pardon to Flynn and each and all of his transition team against any and all crimes and misdemeanors past, present, and future.

Then............

Stared down the FBI / CIA and via executive order disbanded both......

INDY

PS:

Don't tell me this is "illegal" as president Trump via his Justice Secretary
can declare laws "unconstitutional" at will..........

Then........

Face them down......... claiming interference with separation of powers......

Of course....... why Trump didn't simply cashier each and every Obama holdover on day one....... is for the history books.....

INDY

optimax

There's no hint of collusion before the election except for Flynn taking orders from Israel to interfere with Obama's policy for once not running interference on the UN vote for the members of the Judeo-Christian Party. Russia didn't comply, therefor it changed nothing. Of course collusion with Israel isn't s problem . We think of them as our friend while they use us as their golem.

Mueller's investigation hasn't amounted to much but the problem is it is open-ended. It has come out Trump did say the p-word some years ago. Mueller can nail him for that and sing along with this song.

https://boingboing.net/2017/12/01/i-caught-a-snowflake-by.html

blowback

TPM is not left wing, it's Clintonist (Clinton personality cultists) as are many similar liberal blogs which refuse to even discuss the possibility that Hillary Clinton was in anyway responsible for her own defeat and still dream that that either the 2016 election result can be reversed in some way or that Clinton will win in 2020.

Yeah, Right

I'm a little confused here regarding what the crime actually was.

As far as I can tell it is that Flynn did a whole lotta' stuff that wasn't illegal, but when the FBI asked "did you say xxx to Country A on behalf of Country B?" then Flynn either flat-out-lied or lied-by-omission.

That's it, isn't it?

If so, then I'd like to ask a hypothetical: would Flynn have been safe if he had answered with "Well, why don't you tell me what your bugs recorded and I'll agree that the transcript is accurate"

If he had said that - any nothing more - then what would the criminal charges be? Being a smart-arse? Annoying the FBI? Not playing the game?

Because that would be my criteria for deciding how big a beat-up this is i.e. could he have been charged if he had said, quite truthfully, that "I said whatever it is that your bugs recorded me saying".

If he had said that was any crime ever committed?

Any. Crime. At. All?

Kutte

You write: "Here are the key details for you to judge for yourself:"

Therefore, I am judging myself, that Trump kept a cool head all the time and did all the right things and never panicked, unlike Nixon who could have slept out Watergate as a minor nuisance. I am also judging, that you were dead wrong when you kept saying that Trump is a fool and a buffon and will be massacred by Herr Müller. Eventually, Obama and a few others will have to answer unpleasant questions. As Churchill (not my favorite) once said: The wicked aren't always clever. Only the arcmchair strategists enjoy the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

Bobo

So Mueller has two guys pleading guilty to lying to the FBI and two guys who were living on the edge up on charges. Whoopie!!!
After seeing poor Martha tucked away for a few years for lying to the FBI you would of thunk everyone in this country would of known don't talk to the FBI without a lawyer and then say as little of the truth as you can as them boys live for the lie.
Mike Flynn was and is in well over his head and should get to the confessional quickly and say a few Hail Mary's.

I agree you can read a lot into those charges but then for $25 that Gypsie down the street can look into her crystal ball too.

elev8

Publius, aren't you ignoring that this is likely a play to get Flynn to implicate someone close to Trump - one of his kids, Kushner - in withholding information - i.e., an attempt to build an obstruction charge to supplant the collusion charge?
Wouldn't that keep the media game going? It might still exhaust itself, but it would also take longer.

TV

Flynn could have been indicted for felony stupid.
How did this guy get to O-2 much less 3 stars?

LeaNder

I agree, LB, that's the more the interesting part. But also confirms my bias, to be honest.

On the other hand it is firmly within US longtime votes or politics. Was the Obama admin's abstention under Powers more then symbolical? I am sure they knew their abstention wouldn't matter. One would need to take a look at the specific argument or critique.

Again, I don't consider Trump's position on matters surprising.

Wikipedia suggests that the draft was initially presented with a lot of help from Britain behind the scene. Based on Barak Ravid, Haaretz, in this context. It also registers a direct phone call between Trump and el-Sis that supposedly was effective, this time relying on the BBC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_2334#Passage

rkka

What Flynn fell into was a 'perjury trap' set by Obama holdovers, similar to that which was set for Bill Clinton by his personal Jauvert, Ken Starr. Starr indicted Clinton associates with wild abandon, seeking one who had the goods on Bill.

Sorta like Mueller is doing to Trump now. So all this boils down to is domestic political shenanigans that have been going since Tricky Dick was taken down.

Oh, and never talk to law enforcement personnel without your lawyer present. Never.

aleksandar

Phase 1 : Trump lawyers team and Flynn's lawyers team came to an agreement. Flynn will obtain a presidential pardon. They apparently and publicly broke contacts.
Phase 2 : Flynn offers a plea agreement to Mueller. Muller investigations about Trump and Russiangate are already going nowhere. Others inform Mueller discreetly that Flynn will have a presidential pardon whatever convictions he can obtain.
Phase 3 : Mueller accept because it is the only way to continue his investigations and succeed to charge DJT .
Phase 4 : Facts in Flynn's plea agreement prove beyond doubts that Russiangate is bs.
And point directly to JK. BUT JK is Netanyahu and AIPAC mouthpiece.
So Mueller investigations are now targeting a Borg member.
Catch 22.
Sorry but I'am laughing out loud.
Maybe DJT is not as stupid as everybody says.

Fredw

A night's thought convinces me that you do have a point about the nature of plea agreements. The lawyer for the accused will try to include everything possible in order to protect his client from follow-on charges. I don't know why some other things are not there. And neither do you. Your interpretation assumes that the standard pattern applies. It seldom does with these people. Really good lawyers make fortunes getting standard patterns to not apply. Which is not to say that the Turkey-related issues are strong, only that they are not in this document. Could possible state charges be involved that would not be covered by this document in any case? And also would not be open to a presidential pardon? In the short term it looks as though there may be an element of trust involved, much as the lawyers hate that.

I do resent your assumptions about my background and knowledge. When you have arguments, make the arguments. It is offensive to attribute motives and habits to people to people you don't know and have never met.

LeaNder

It does not include all of the facts known to me regarding this offense."

Could be a standard phrase or legal device. I interpret it within my minor means and/or no knowledge of the relevant US law as standard phrase suggesting Flynn guided by his lawyer stood closely within the limits of matters the prosecutors confronted him with.

Outrage Beyond

Re: TPM is not left wing, it's Clintonist

Indeed, it's not only Clintonist. The proprietor is a hardcore and extremely arrogant Zionist who was among the enthusiasts of the Iraq War for Israel. He also named his son after a Zionist terrorist.

turcopolier

All
Flynn IS NOT a former general. He is a retired general. He is still a member of the US Army. As such he has potential liabilities from the Army because of his guilty plea to a felony. The Army's possible reaction to that is unconnected to whatever happens to Flynn in the federal courts. Theoretically, the Army could administratively expel Flynn from the Army if his civilian crime is judged by the Army to have damaged national security. This would deprive him of all benefits connected to his present status as a retired service member. that would include his retired pay, medical benefits, etc. If the lawyers think I have that wrong, let me know. pl

LeaNder

CWZ, not many "October surprises" seem to have been successful. Relying on the narrow lens provided by Wikipedia. Russiagate at this moment seems nothing more then simply another October Surprise charge. Although strictly, it may not quite fit into the category either. But we do need categories:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise

Fred

CWZ,

"...communicating with foreign ambassadors..."

Is not a crime in the United States.

"Pre-inaugural meetings between representatives of the incoming administration ..."

You mean there were no discussions between the Trump campaign and the Russians until after he had won the election. So we are down to complaing because Trump showed a lack of decorum.

Fred

SR Wood,

"How long did it take to get the full story on Nixon Clinton?" There, fixed it for you. Rather than point to a specific point of Publius' posting you throw out a slur: "apologist"? How about the fact that the original FISA warrants were based on the Fusion GPS dossier that was in part paid for by the Clinton campaign and thus the findings of probable cause for an investigation are based on fabrications created by an agent of a foreign government? Better not bring that one up. We'll know in 7 years when Trump leaves office. But at least you'll have the satisfaction of using the investigation to say how illegitimate he was.

Annem

Well, this is how the USG handles such matters.....as for Turkey, having learned that Reza Zarrab, the Iran sanctions buster and BFF of the Erdogan's, has been flipped by NY prosecutors in the case of Halkbank senior managers, they have indicted Zarrab as a "spy" and seized all the man's extensive holdings and money in Turkey, as well as that of all members of his family. That is a huge haul! Meanwhile, the Sultan has declared that he and his folks have done nothing illegal since they did not agree to the sanctions. IF you recall, this money-laundering scheme was an important part of the major corruption case against Zarrab and others including members of Erdo's family. That started the draconian moves against judges, prosecutors and police officials in 2013 followed by the rapid evaporation of all aspects of democracy in that country.

jdledell

PT - "He can afford big time lawyers and beat the Mueller team to shit in the courtroom." This is the kind of comment you assert as a Fact yet when other commentators make similar remarks - you insist those are opinions. Life is full of people who insist their analysis and opinion are always 100% correct and factual and others are always wrong and stupid.

You have strung together pieces of information to build a hypothetical case that Trump and his companions are not guilty of collusion. That may or may not be correct, but it is far too early to come to a definitive conclusion.

It is my hope that this site returns to its roots with military commentary about hot spots around the globe. The recent analysis of the situation in Syria was first class and unavailable from any other source.

blowback
December 31, 2016--the Russian Ambassador called FLYNN and informed him that Russia had chosen not to retaliate in response to FLYNN's request.
Have you any evidence for this? The Washington Post/Associated Press is currently reporting:
—Dec. 31, 2016: Kislyak tells Flynn that Russia has decided not to retaliate over the sanctions. Flynn conveys this back to senior members of Trump’s transition team.
If there was more, I think the Washington Post/Associated Press would report it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/key-events-in-michael-flynns-interactions-with-russia/2017/12/01/a0a59626-d6e7-11e7-9ad9-ca0619edfa05_story.html?utm_term=.20efd6f1d45a


Given that a new president with radically different views on relations with Russia was about to take office, it would be simple commonsense for Russia/The Kremlin/Putin to hold off for a period to see how the new president dealt with the issue.

DC

My right-of-center buddies are parroting this, National Review's, argument that the plea deal somehow exonerates Trump of anything. Well, MAYBE it points in that direction, but as many others are pointing out here, what we don't know is likely more damning than what we do know. It's a plea deal: what ISN'T Flynn being charged with? (hint: google "Flynn" and "Turkey")

steve

When asked about it, did Obama or his people lie? If Flynn was simply doing what everyone else had been doing, then why lie?

Steve

DC

Well, yes, obstruction. Trump had the authority to fire Comey but not for an illegal (attempt to obstruct) reason. What we know so far is (a) he fired him; (b) Trump told others he was glad Comey was gone because it took heat off his back; (b) we learned this week that Trump told Congress to stop investigating his relationship with Russia. Trump is even dumber than Flynn, imo. And that's looking to be pretty dumb.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

January 2021

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            
Blog powered by Typepad