« Shaping the battlefield. Hama to Morek road is open. | Main | Douma, Syria falls to the R+6 »

12 November 2017

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

JamesT

I agree with TTG that governments attempt to influence one another all the time. There is an interesting post currently on zerohedge about Germany trying to "interfere" in Polish elections:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-12/germany-clumsily-admits-supporting-regime-change-poland

Fred

TTG,

How about Mexico?

Fred

Outthere,

That would be a neat trick since he's been dead half a decade and was out of the Senate almost 3 decades before that.

LeaNder

TP, picking up on some type of mental undercurrent.

Yes, without doubt Clinton's statement about the claimed unisono opinon of the 17 by Clinton was suspect from the very, very start. At least if degrading the US to some type of information tyranny wasn't her intention.

With a single statement she verbally turned the 17 into some type of echo choir. Without any doubt.

But: Can we assume she ever took the trouble to understand what the 17 actually signify? Did she ever try to seriously grasp it? Or did her statement suggest she may have never bothered to understand, and thus might even have misread whatever 'signals' she received? ...

Put another way: is she a highly well connected sly string puller, as your chronology may or may not suggest, well connected, relying on a neatly streamlined use or misuse of the US power under whatever US admin?

Hyperintelligent, since she studied law at Havard? Or alternatively stupid, or manipulating trying to score an easy point with the audience in a very, very special setting to get elected?

Less well connected to a more general public sentiment at the time?

******

Much harder to grasp the larger post 9/11 activities as far as cyberwar and related subjects: the semi-collective effort to open source intelligence (a new branch of business, it felt at one point) and the no doubt pretty neglected subject of cybercrime and its history within the respectively legal national limits to fight it in the real larger cyberworld out there for the commoners.

And last but not least. could it be that simple information warfare is mixed up with some of the former in the larger Russiagate debate? And how exactly would we define it in our brave new post 9/11 universe?

*****
In which of the respective jobs offered by the 17 could the latter four be neatly fitted in precisely? Would the problems for the commoners surface at all?

Imagine

TTG Sir,
The problem is not other states' putative meddling in American elections. The problem is the Deep State successfully creating a wave of McCarthyism II, keeping the American public emotional and off-balance, which leads to their being easily pulled in bad directions and brought down. Recall "The Crucible", and the wars with Iraq.

Imagine

Some evidence points to Internet Research Agency being a CIA false-flag operation. In particular, (1) this never was a real company, but apparently operated out of an address whose building had not been opened yet; (2) Russia apparently arrested the principals of IRA on charges of being foreign agents for America. If this line checks out, it would cast a whole new light on the matter.

https://thesaker.is/a-brief-history-of-the-kremlin-trolls/

Imagine

Other evidence points to this being a standard clickbait Internet marketing attempt. In particular, something like 56% of the "Russian" ads ran after the election. Clickbait artists run from all over the world, and it is certainly not surprising that some of them would be based in Russia. Basic steps: (1) Run ads based on what people are talking about; (2) Drive them to your website; (3) Capture names & emails, sell to other marketers; (4) and/or Sell them ebooks or widgets. Make a slim profit based on percentage sales vs. ad costs. Because none of the ads were "please overthrow your country in favor of glorious Mother Russia", this interpretation is actually the most likely explanation for the original ads. Why Congress is pumping the issue is a different matter.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/10/3000-facebook-ads-the-russian-influence-campaign-is-a-profitable-click-bait-scheme.html

LeaNder

Sorry, first intended to respond to you, and then on the way seem to have changed my mind and addressed Publius instead ...

Will you forgive me, AIS?

GeneO

PT -

I have no clue as to TTG's experience. But I have long been impressed with his many posts and his rational comments on this blog. I tend to believe his points of view. Yours too sometimes. But you should tell us of your experience and what makes your opinions superior to TTGs on this matter.

BillWade

well, you can vote for another candidate come 2020 then. What I remember is the MSM telling me that HRC was a shoe-in while my eyes told me that there were 42 Trump yard signs for every 1 of HRC's in my town. Laughing here.

The Twisted Genius

Fred,

I just don't know. I would think Mexico would be foolish to the point of criminality if they did not attempt to influence the colossus to the north. Perhaps all the "we're not paying for your f$%king wall" was part of this. I think it was more of a visceral reaction to a series of insults from Trump.

 jld

The portable thermobaric has been operational for quite a while, used in February by the Ukrainians to assassinate a DPR commander they could not take out in combat.

Eric Newhill

TTG,
IMO, Your focus is way too narrow, too fixated and, frankly, way too far into the geek zone.

As PT says, the Russia interference narrative is destructive to US internal political culture and fraught with serious risks for the future for the both the US and international relationships.

There is no real evidence to date that Russian activities had any meaningful impact on the election results. To repeat the meme that Russia both made efforts to interfere and that those efforts had tangible results is irresponsible.

I will go farther to say that even *if* Russian efforts were real and had tangible results, the meme should still be killed. The damage caused and risk created by that knowledge in the minds of the general populace far outweighs any benefits. As you (and PT and Col Lang) are certainly aware, all kinds of things happen all the time that influence the US in very real ways that the general public is not aware of and likely never will be. The general public wouldn't know how to handle the info, how to put it in context, assign the proper meaning and tie into a larger picture of the world. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; more dangerous than no knowledge.

IMO, this is an issue that should be quietly studied and quietly addressed (if there's anything to it) by quiet professionals. That is what a responsible government would do.

turcopolier

GeneO

I do not want PT to describe his experience to you. To do so would be to reveal his identity. His experience is extensive. pl

Fred

TTG,

Would that response include incentivising Mexican citizens to move North without visas, to register to vote in the US without citizenship and to work on campaigns without lawful ability to do so? If so how many election cycles do you think this occurred in and how many local and state level elections may have been decided by such efforts?

Peter AU

If there was any reflexive control used, it was used directly on Obama and Clinton, rather than the US public.
Clinton kicked of Russian meddling as an election tool, and Obama cemented this in many peoples minds in the days after the election by publicly initiating an investigation and expelling Russian diplomats.
After a decade or so of being the sole superpower, the US moved to a wonderland where nothing is real, it could do or say anything. Political hacks posing as heads of intelligence...
Russia is now in the enviable position in the current information war where it only needs to put out facts, reveal information, be it ISIS oil convoys, emails or NSA/CIA hacking tools.

rjj

The Russian influence was secondary; it was Victoria Nuland and her Ukrainian meddling nulanding who changed a lot of votes.

sid_finster

Clapper is a perjurer.

outthere

Stephen F Cohen knows so much about Russia, and for so long. He just went again to attend the ceremony for the opening of the new memorial for Stalin's victims. He sat with his old friend Gorbachev. Here is the report:
https://www.thenation.com/article/the-unheralded-putin-russias-official-anti-stalinist-no-1/

Charles Michael

Personnaly I don't buy much of this Russia meddling, and anyway that's not the point I want to emphasize:
apart from the usefullness of the Putin did it during the camapign and after to bring some sollace to Hillary Clinton, the Russia story has now a very clear and strong utility: limiting the power to act of the newly elected POTUS.
and thus bringing a very divided population quite often clause to hysteria and rather unable to do some deep reflexion on itself and the real state of the Union.

different clue

Tel,

Not all. Some bernie supporters, even if only a few, came out and voted for Trump as a matter of principle AND vengeance . . . and saving America from the spectre of a President Clinton.

Babak Makkinejad

PT:

I agree with you about the dangers.

The failure of the Enlightenment Project (or a child thereof) in USSR has removed the pretension and the convenience of a common language between the these two antagonists, US and the Russian Federation (the successor to USSR).

That means that as this antagonism persists and develops fully, it will become another civilizational confrontation at the level of religion, culture, historical experience and what constitutes Justice.

Just like the antagonism with Iran.

At such a point, the differences will be cemented and frozen, with nary even the theoretical possibility of a resolution - a Hopeless Armed Peace.

The turbine-based jet-engines can reach Mach 2.5; the Ramjet ones start at Mach 3.5. US, Russia, China, India, Western European states are all working on developing hyper-sonic weapons to deliver a bomb within 15 minutes on any point on the surface f Earth.

The technology for seeding of the Earth's oceans with passive and active sensory arrays feeding manned and unmanned semi-autonomous submerged weapons-platforms is only a matter of time and money.

We are rapidly approaching a great dystopia, with robots, sub-humans, and humans slugging it out across the planet.

different clue

JohnB,

The ruling upper classes within this country also fear the longer term threat that the non-ruling middle and lower classes right here might want a
National-Economic Sovereignty system right here for this country.

The better the Russian economy does behind the unintended protection of the sanctions, the better Protectionism looks and the more Americans might want it for America. The globalist elites don't want Russia to live long enough to make the case for Protectionism by Russia's own better example.

The Twisted Genius

Fred,

Do you have any evidence of widespread, or even minimal, voter fraud perpetrated by Mexicans? As far as I know the only people pushing that story line are the same ones saying the moon landing and the Sandy Hook killings were both hoaxes.

SmoothieX12

Russia does not want to see a unified US government

Actually, Russia wants to see a US government which is treaty-worthy and could be reasoned with. This, by definition, requires unified government. The fact that Russia completely rejects neocon or US exceptionalist vision is not a secret and it is reflected properly from military Doctrine to the whole spectrum of opinions in media. It is not a secret. The other issue here is that this very "exceptionalist" approach to foreign relations is damaging to the US itself and mechanism of this increasing and accelerating damage is not something hidden--it is in the open.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

November 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30          
Blog powered by Typepad