« Hariri resignation - Israeli attack comes next? | Main | Donna Brazil Goes "Sofia" on Hillary and Obama by Publius Tacitus »

05 November 2017

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

eakens

Cleaning house in the name of corruption by a 32 year old member of the lucky sperm club who has spent nearly a billion dollars on homes, yachts, cars, planes and other lavish spending alone. Perfect opportunity for the Shias to preempt his next move, though the Iranians are probably more amused by the opportunity MBS’s delusional thinking holds for them.

ancient archer

This consolidation of power was bound to come when the time came for the old guard to give way to the new. As luck has it, it is Mohammad bin Salman not Mit-ab Abdullah who is the next king. It could very easily have been the other a few years ago. And as is the norm with successions of this sort, other potential claimants to the throne either go to the prison or to the netherworld. Nothing special here.

The worry here is that everyone seems to be gearing up for war. Israel, after seeing their whole campaign against Syria breaking down, making statements that it will go into Syria to protect a Druze village. Saudi making threats about cutting off the Iranian hand. Lots of visits of middle east potentates, from King Salman to Netanyahu to Moscow where they were politely told to f*ck off (I suppose). All this along with the war in Syria winding down with lots of ex-ISIS gently changing their side to the US supported SDF (can't think of a more oxymoronic name, neither Syrian, nor democratic and not much of a force either without US air support)

The situation in the middle east seems very similar to what it would have felt like in Europe before world wars I and II. Alliances being formed and everyone just loading their guns and waiting. We might still yet avoid the big one - Israel + Saudi + allies (maybe with the US, maybe not) against the Iranians and their allies (including SAA and Hezbollah but most probably with the Russians not taking a side).

It benefits the Israelis and the Saudis to push this to the brink and let the war start now. The other side would prefer to wait, patiently as they have done for the last many years. The key player here would be the US. Trump is the only one who can pull back barking Netanyahu from his mad dog war by not playing along. But will he?

Babak Makkinejad

He is utilizing the same play book as Xi Ping of China.
In regards to his grand ambitions, he will fail since the material, organizational, and intellectual elements for their realization do not exist in Saudi Arabia. But the Faranji will stoke him and take his money, laughing and joking about this new Ifi Ami.

FB Ali

Col Lang,

"...his follow up move will probably be to purge the Shia clergy..."

Isn't it more likely that it will be the Sunni clergy he'll purge first?

james

i tend to agree with a lot of your views here aa.. i don't know that this clown prince is going to last that long.. i think the wheels are coming off the kingdom and these moves are further proof of it..

the sdf name tag was insisted on by the us armed forces.. they have to have the word 'democratic' in it to sell it to the folks back home.. they weren't called that previously, but had to adopt the 'democratic' word to get us approval, optics being everything for some..

as for russia, or the usa staying out of any confrontation - i can't see it.. if israel/ksa do something, the big players will be involved in some way shape and form.. it seems the usa has been outmanoeuvred on the oil front..
https://journal-neo.org/2017/11/04/moscow-outmaneuvers-washington-s-
kurdistan-project/ - reattach the broken part to get the link working.. i am also in agreement with babak.. i think the clown prince is going to ultimately fail... i think he holds onto power in the short term, but not the long term.. i give him about 2-3 years max..

Pacifica Advocate

What will a purge of the Eastern Province's Shia clergy look like?

And please forgive me for asking--beyond oil politics, I am utterly ignorant about anything within Saudi Arabia--but what power do the Eastern provinces' Shia clergy wield? Do those have any kind of political recourse within the house of Saud, or are their only choices violent rebellion / utter subjugation?

turcopolier

FB Ali

it could go either way but he probably sees the Shia clergy as Iranian subversives. pl

turcopolier

PA

They have no recourse except rebellion. pl

Babak Makkinejad

It is a grudge match that will not alter the strategic situation.
As per usual, Arabs will be losers in any case; reprising their history since 1945.
I do feel sorry for the Arab people, and those non-Arabs dragged by them into these fruitless policies.

Babak Makkinejad

Not even that, which would be suicidal.

Pacifica Advocate

God bless them.

Babak Makkinejad

The whole world is in the situation analogous to what obtained in Europe between 1886 and 1914, with the Middle East being the Global Balkans.
The danger, in my opinion, lies mostly amonh the Olympians of the Western Gortress - they are clearly vety prone to miscalculation.

jsn

I think Kushner's trip gives this a US meaning as well:
https://medium.com/@zachhaller/saudi-royalty-arrests-rock-clinton-obama-regime-f230a548984a

Oilman2

The Arabs have a recourse - some are exercising it now by streaming into Europe. I have some new Syrian neighbors from a few years back as well. The only voting that matters is with your feet, your wallet or your rifle (knife, sword, spear?). And somebody always has a bigger or more guns, so that vote is always the most risky to cast.

turcopolier

Oilman2

My reference was to the Shia Arabs of the Eastern Province. They have no recourse other than rebellion. pl

Thirdeye

Things just got a whoooole lot crazier.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-05/saudi-helicopter-carrying-8-high-ranking-officials-crown-prince-mansour-crashed-all-

Prince Bin-Muqrin was the descendant of the Prince who was replaced by Bin Salman. If this was a staged incident it was an incredibly stupid one. Nobody's going to believe it was an accident without 100% proof positive.

paul

in historical monarchies that followed primogeniture this was common practice upon a change in succession.

the saudi, might be one of the only (if not the only) major monarchy in history that has had several lateral succession among brothers. rather than continuously from father to son.

while the timing is indicative, and "cleaning house" would be a prerequisite for starting any major conflagration, i see it as far less telling than the harari show for instance.

and on top of the MBS does not have a very good tract record of making good decisions and planing and executing them well.

Fred

Oilman,

So they are going to enjoy European freedom that they did nothing to earn but show up with a bag of money or a refugee story? How's that currently working out for the Europeans? I've seen read that plenty them don't like that open border policy at all.

robt willmann

Thirdeye,

I just saw the report about the helicopter crash involving Saudis shortly ago. The New York Times newspaper plugged it into an article near the bottom about the shakeup in the Saudi ruling family--

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/middleeast/saudi-crown-prince-purge.html

Surprisingly, fairly near the top, the article quotes Chas Freeman, probably because the article originated out of the Times' London bureau. Here in the states in the mass media, Mr. Freeman's exceptional knowledge and experience is not welcome--

"It is the coup de grâce of the old system," said Chas W. Freeman, a former United States ambassador. "Gone. All power has now been concentrated in the hands of Mohammad bin Salman."

Since you never know in a NY Times article where a pertinent sentence might be, here is one further down the page, under the invisible subheading, coincidences--

"Three White House advisers, including the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner [who were the other two?], returned just days ago from the latest in at least three high-level Trump administration visits to Saudi Arabia this year."

Then, still further down, under the same subheading, the helicopter crash is mentioned, beginning, in classic NY Times fashion, with: "In what appeared to be an unrelated episode…."--

"In what appeared to be an unrelated episode, a helicopter carrying another Saudi royal, Prince Mansur bin Muqrin, the deputy governor of Asir Province, which borders Yemen, was killed on Sunday along with a number of other officials when their helicopter crashed. Al Arabiya, which reported the crash in a brief dispatch, did not identify the cause."

If I am interpreting the chart of the Saudi ruling family correctly, posted by Col. Lang above, the person killed, Muqrin, is the brother of King Salman, and was a former "crown prince".

As'ad AbuKhalil, who grew up in Beirut, Lebanon and teaches at California State University at Stanislaus, wrote some commentary on the situation--

http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2017/11/what-is-happening-in-saudi-arabia-ritz.html

AbuKhalil does raise the issue that if there is a big anti-corruption campaign going on, a name that has not been raised for discussion is one "Bandar Bush" bin Sultan.

J

Colonel,

IMO what we're seeing are the Saudis and Israelis working in concert to prep the ground for another ME war, this one directed at Saudi's rival Iran and what it sees as Iran's puppet (Hizballah). Saudi will use their influence ($$$$) upon their Muktahr on one side, and the Israelis will use their paid 5th column inside America's religious societies to prep the American citizenry on the other side that it is 'necessary' that there be another ME war, this one at the evil rival of their Hegemony called Iran.

Saudis and Israelis are playing both sides against the middle, and we the American citizenry are what they see as the Oreo creme in the middle to be molded at their whim.

And of course none of the American religious leadership's kids and grand-kids will be spilling their blood, just our kids whom both the Saudis and Israelis see as cannon fodder.

JamesT

Thirdeye

I was in Kenya a few years ago and my guides were telling me that 3 opposition leaders had died in 3 different plane crashes in the last 10 years. Kenyans have much more liberty and ability to protest than the Saudis. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must - especially in KSA.

Serge

Thank you for this analysis Colonel, I don't know anything about the specifics of House Saud and nothing I read from MSM reports since this has happened have told me anything,except summing it up as "anti corruption" or some other BS without any context whatsoever....how deeply in the dark hole of mis/disinformation we are kept.

Markopasha

Actually, succession via a line of brothers, or agnatic seniority, is quite common in the Gulf. While the family tree above is useful, it doesn't really show what you need to look for, which is the potential line of brothers that form up beside Muhammad bin Salman.
Essentially, what we are seeing is the long-expected "extinguishing" of the Sudairi 7 line of brothers, with Salman's descendants maneuvering to form the new line of succession. Salman's older brother Nayef and his sons also gave it a shot, but they were shut out. For now, anyway...

J

Colonel

It also appears those with close ties/affiliations with the Bush's and the Clinton's were uprooted.

Dr. Puck

Whose boots hit the ground in war-making against Iran? Not the KSA; probably not any frontline USA infantry or SF? Only an air and cruise missile war?

What would a winnable war look like that would set Iran's overall military capabilities back 'far enough' without causing it to be another ME failed state?

LeaNder

robt, not that it matters.

I read AbuKhalil's 2002 book, but admittedly I am highly hesitant about his BDS position. To the extend it makes me wonder about the guy more generally. I have to admit that I am with Norman Finkelstein in this context. His versus Norman's position seems to plays into the hands of Israel.

http://normanfinkelstein.com/2013/06/25/a-brief-email-exchange-with-asad-abukhalil-angry-arab-2/

turcopolier

All

Rumor (?) has it that Prince abd-al-aziz bin fahd (son of the late king) was either killed resisting arrest or died in custody? Is this true? pl

Poul

For what it's worth.

https://twitter.com/Ali_H_Soufan/status/927309277198512128

eakens

The report was apparently issued by the Saudi royal court but didn’t say how. Seems like quite a crazy time for Saudis to be invoking article 51

Will2.71828

Another theory relating to the mass recent arrests and helicopter "crashes" in Wahhabi Barbaria
"Prince Abdul Aziz was deeply involved in Saudi Oger Ltd, a company which until it ceased operations in the summer of this year, was owned by the Hariri family. Former Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri was putitively in charge of the company until it ceased operations.

Prince Abdul Aziz’s strange and sudden death which is said to have occurred during an attempted arrest, sheds light on the theory that the clearly forced resignation of former Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri had more to do with internal Saudi affairs than the Saudi attempt to bring instability to Lebanon."
http://theduran.com/saudi-prince-abdul-aziz-dies-arrest/

JamesT

I was reading the Wikipedia page on the "Volcano H-2" missile that was reportedly intercepted over Riyadh, and it states:
"Volcano H-2 was first revealed to the international community when it was launched at Saudi Arabia on July 22, 2017, which successfully hit the region of Yanbu and caused a major fire at Aramco oil refineries. Although this is disputed by Saudi Arabia which has said the fire was caused by a malfunctioning generator and the humidity of the air."

Wow. So the Houthis are building short range ballistic missiles and managed to set fire to an Aramco refinery with one. I can't believe I did not know about this.

FB Ali

Perhaps more significant than the purge of the Saudi royal family is the purge taking place of the Saudi clergy (see http://tinyurl.com/ya9de889).

The Saudi royals being sidelined or killed are just wealthy playboys. The Wahhabi clergy, while mercenary hangers-on of the al Saud, command a following both in the country and among Wahhabis internationally.

It is a measure of the rot in the Saudi kingdom that one headstrong young princeling has been able to so easily take it over. How long he lasts will probably be a function of external machinations.

Philippe T.

On August 17, 2017, the motorcade tof the Prince was attacked near Paris by an armed commando, who stole some pocket money (250 000 euros), medicines and some documents. Here is the report by Le Monde : http://abonnes.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2014/08/19/abdel-aziz-ben-fahd-prince-saoudien-peu-discret-braque-aux-portes-de-paris_4473283_3224.html
and by the Figaro :
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2014/08/19/01016-20140819ARTFIG00327-abdul-aziz-ben-fahd-prince-braque-a-paris.php

Russell

Hello FB Ali
The link does not seem to work....

turcopolier

FB Ali

The tinyurl worked for me. Is the same thing happening to the Shia clergy in the Eastern Province? p

turcopolier

James T

The idiot press keeps saying it is the Houthis who fired the missile. In fact it was the Yemeni Army guided missile battalion. They had SCUD when I was there as Defatt 30 years ago. pl

turcopolier

All

Jack Keane was on Fox today referring to the SANG as the "palace guard." The SANG is a second Saudi army not under MODA and numbering 250,00- fulltime Beduin troops with a sizable armored force and vast part time reserves. its function is to ensure population and territorial security throughout the country but especially in the Eastern Province to insure control of the Shia. Removing Mit'ab from command was a key move to block a counter-coup. pl

 jld

It's the spurious ').' at the end which fools some browsers, better put a blank after each URL.
http://tinyurl.com/ya9de889

FB Ali

Try this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/middleeast/saudi-arabia-wahhabism-salafism-mohammed-bin-salman.html

Thomas

Copy the link, put into search engine and erase the final parentheses and period which will let the article appear.

Thomas

"It is a measure of the rot in the Saudi kingdom that one headstrong young princeling has been able to so easily take it over."

But it is only the third day of the counter coup event which has change the paradigm. And with his highhandedness to the other family princes, returning fighters from Syria and Iraq, and, from several different media sources of a consensus the that Crown Prince is not well liked I wonder if he will see this next Saturday let alone December. Or could the Kingdom have its own breakdown to civil war like it has provoked in others?

Account Deleted

That makes more sense to me re Hariri. Trying to start a war with a resignation & obviously fake assassination plot is hardly Helen of Troy level, as casus belli go. His going the way of his father 'at the hands of Hizbullah' would have been more like it.

blue peacock

Now this is very interesting - the connection between the killed Prince and Hariri and his resignation from Riyadh.

Where there is smoke there is a fire.

Russell

Thanks for this.
In my humble opinion, this is very significant. But MbS has so many balls in the air now, I cannot imagine how it will all turn out.

Clonal Antibody

Also, there is this hypothesis from Adam Garrie at the Duran - BREAKING: Saudi regime orders arrest of so-called “Syrian opposition leaders”

This is a further sign that the purges of Muhammad bin Salman are aimed at radically re-orientating the priorities of the Saudi regime. Additionally, Saudi has now all but admitted that its attempts to meddle in Syria’s sovereign political affairs have failed.

.

.

.

While the MBS purges are self-serving first and foremost, they are also part of his desired pivot away from over-dependency on the US. By publicly attacking its former political proxies for Syria, Riyadh is clearly showing that its internal matters now take precedent over directly meddling in the wider Arab world.

Richardstevenhack

The US will try to "finesse it" with air and naval forces - but it won't work. There is no way the US Navy can prevent Iran from shutting down the Straits of Hormuz. Iran can dump mines and the like all day long using small boats.

The only way the US can keep the Straits open for shipping is to occupy the shores all along the Iran coast. It would take scores of thousands of Marines and US Army - if we have them. And they would then be the targets of a guerrilla war by a million or so Iranian militia alongside Iranian regulars and IRGC. This would produce thousands of casualties per year, not the hundreds a year the Iraq war produced.

There is no chance the US can win a war with Iran. It's four times bigger than Iraq in size and population, and Iranians will never surrender. The war will cost four times what the Iraq-Afghanistan wars combined cost. Iraq would probably throw out any US forces remaining and join in on Iran's side.

While Iran has little ability to project military power abroad, it can conduct missile attacks on significant Saudi oil assets, on US bases in the region, and other kinds of "asymmetric" attacks throughout the region on US assets.

A Pentagon war game conducted early in this century pitted a US Marine general as the head of Iran's forces against US forces. He managed to sink 16 US naval vessels. They had to suspend the war game and "re-float" the vessels to continue the game. While the US thinks it has defenses against small boat "swarm attacks", we won't know how effective they are until the war actually starts.

Iran won't be a failed state because its ethnic divisions aren't as significant as Iraq's were. If anything, it's likely to become stronger in the region despite a significant destruction of its infrastructure by the US air campaign.

turcopolier

richardstevenhack

We did keep the straits open once before against Iranian efforts to the contrary. Operations Earnest Will and Nimble Archer. I was very involved in those events. BTW your attitude toward Wikipedia is that of a pedant. pl

Cee

FB Ali,

http://theduran.com/breaking-saudi-regime-orders-arrest-called-syrian-opposition-leaders/

Keith Harbaugh

A question for those more knowledgeable about Islam than I:
Does all the strife in the Islamic world, twixt Shia, Sunni, Kurds for example,
totally disprove the idea that "Islam is a religion of peace",
and the notion that Dar al-Islam is a "territory of peace"?
I would be interested to hear what those more knowledgeable about Islam think about this.

turcopolier

keith harbaugh

Islam enjoins peace among Muslims, not toward infidels (kuffar) or true heathen (wathenieen). This sounds simple but it is not. As I have treid many tiemes to explain Islam is a religio-cultural construct in which because there is no central authority, groups of various size decide what Islam and Sharia are on the basis of consensus (ijma')the resulting consensus groups are more or less hostile toward all other consensus groups. In the case of Sunni jihadi consensus groups they are violent in the rejection of all other groups. that is why HTS and IS fight each other. Ethnic difference further complicate matters. Does that make your head hurt? pl

Babak Makkinejad

I have tried many times on this forum, and I will try again: Islam is not a religion of Peace - it is a religion of both War and Peace. While peace is preferrable, at times, war becomes a necessity.

Pacifica Advocate

Succession via brothers was a common means of succession among the Turkic/Mongolian tribes of the eastern and central Asian steppe, as well. What we are seeing in Saudi Arabia was often repeated in those tribes, as well: once the line of brothers ran out--or if the last remaining brother was considered weak, and susceptible--then this kind of free-for-all among the competing offspring was common, and often resulted in a new line of brothers rising to possession of the throne.

FB Ali

Keith Harbaugh,

Another answer to your question is that Muslims take their religion (or the various versions of it) much more seriously than, say, modern Christians.

They are going through the same phase that Christians did earlier (eg, the Thirty Years War). The latter soon moved on to fighting over other causes (King, country, nation, etc); Muslims are still fighting over religious beliefs.

Adrestia

IMO it is being used as a diversion (to the dislike of EU politics. People don't like it, but a lot of this is based on sentiment. When you look into the facts (which not a lot of people do), it isn't that important or troublesome.

It does however play in the hands of populist-nationalist parties who keep growing. It does also mean that the Euroborg are still able to form new governments as a lot of voters elect strategic against (ultra) right and left populist parties or only a relative small percentage is enough to become the next government. In my country with a very small coalition of pro-Euro parties (76 of 150 seats) and for example in France (and the UK) with stepped electoral elections (2 rounds in France and a system similar to the US in the UK). No government has a strong electoral majority.

IMO the next elections will be won by the (ultra)right and muslims (in particular refugees) will be used as scapegoats.

Part of the problem is that a lot of asylum seekers are young, male and alonw who regardless of culture are always more problematic than families. IMO it would have been better to insist on extendedfamilies. Improper behavior will be handled internally and return when the situation is improving (like Syria) is easier.

J

Are my eyes playing tricks on me, or is the Prince going after 911 players as well?

ex-PFC Chuck

Pepe Escobar at Asia Times has a post up at AT with what appears to be a lot of inside scoop on the Saudi purge and its consequences. In the past his reporting has generally been pretty reliable with regard to other countries but I don't recall him ever delving into Saudi affairs before. I'm very curious to read what others here think of this story.
http://www.atimes.com/article/inside-story-saudi-night-long-knives/

confusedponderer

As for that war game - it was named "Millennium Challenge 2002".

"Red, commanded by retired Marine Corps Lieutenant General Paul K. Van Riper, adopted an asymmetric strategy, in particular, using old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders to front-line troops and World-War-II-style light signals to launch airplanes without radio communications.

Red received an ultimatum from Blue, essentially a surrender document, demanding a response within 24 hours. Thus warned of Blue's approach, Red used a fleet of small boats to determine the position of Blue's fleet by the second day of the exercise. In a preemptive strike, Red launched a massive salvo of cruise missiles that overwhelmed the Blue forces' electronic sensors and destroyed sixteen warships. This included one aircraft carrier, ten cruisers and five of six amphibious ships. An equivalent success in a real conflict would have resulted in the deaths of over 20,000 service personnel. Soon after the cruise missile offensive, another significant portion of Blue's navy was "sunk" by an armada of small Red boats, which carried out both conventional and suicide attacks that capitalized on Blue's inability to detect them as well as expected.

At this point, the exercise was suspended, Blue's ships were "re-floated", and the rules of engagement were changed; this was later justified by General Peter Pace as follows: "You kill me in the first day and I sit there for the next 13 days doing nothing, or you put me back to life and you get 13 more days' worth of experiment out of me. Which is a better way to do it?"[1] After the reset, both sides were ordered to follow predetermined plans of action.

After the war game was restarted, its participants were forced to follow a script drafted to ensure a Blue Force victory. Among other rules imposed by this script, Red Force was ordered to turn on their anti-aircraft radar in order for them to be destroyed, and was not allowed to shoot down any of the aircraft bringing Blue Force troops ashore.[2] Van Riper also claimed that exercise officials denied him the opportunity to use his own tactics and ideas against Blue Force, and that they also ordered Red Force not to use certain weapons systems against Blue Force and even ordered the location of Red Force units to be revealed.[3]

This led to accusations that the war game had turned from an honest, open, free playtest of U.S. war-fighting capabilities into a rigidly controlled and scripted exercise intended to end in an overwhelming U.S. victory,[2] alleging that "$250 million was wasted".

Van Riper was extremely critical of the scripted nature of the new exercise and resigned from the exercise in the middle of the war game. Van Riper later said that the Vice Admiral Marty Mayer altered the exercise's purpose to reinforce existing doctrine and notions of infallibility within the U.S. military rather than serving as a learning experience."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

An interesting read. Soooo ... a capable but retired Marine general fought smart and beat the US Navy in an exercise and Pace, a still active Marine General ... by order ... refloats the lost ships to ... not lose, err, to win. How realistic. What a brilliant strategist.

Mr. Van Riper appears to be a capable man. As for Pace, I'm not so sure.

Interestingly Pace's wiki entry says that "Secretary of Defense Robert Gates announced on June 8, 2007, that he would advise the President to not renominate Pace for a second term" as a chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

* For one, the script of the exercise - in one sentence: "Surrender or we'll bomb ya" - appears familiar.

** I'm speculating: Perhaps Gates problem with the man was that sunken ships usually cannot be re-floated by, say, an edict, willing or an order?

Bob

Sir:
Concur completely with your assessment on events in Saudi Arabia, as well as your subsequent comments; particularly following my recent roadtrip back to KSA. MBS is all about consolidation of power, and not social or economic reform as many experts are saying. The second order effect of this is exactly as someone noted that AMB Freeman has commented, as the end of "Consensus/Ijma" among the Saudi royal family. The third order effects, particularly for US interests, may be more significant, depending if MBS's next actions are as successful (sic) as they have been so far (i.e. Yemen, Qatar, etc). I would guess that POTUS is being advised what the long-term US interest WRT Saudi Arabia and the region, and is continuing to ignore it, particularly when you look at the makeup of the recent Kushner delegation.

dorane

Colonel,
No one's yet mentioned Prince Talal, al Waleed's father. I seem to remember him being something of a reformer/black sheep, 30 years ago. Is he still around?

Cee

You had been warned

https://youtu.be/NLflLdIJeMw

Cee

Col.,

It says here he was shot

http://theantimedia.org/saudi-prince-killed-gunned-resisting-arrest/

Cee

All,

Is MBS a descendant of the man who died in a crash in Texas pre- 911?

FB Ali

ex-PFC Chuck,

Pepe Escobar always claims to have an "inside scoop" on various developments. I find this rather dubious!

In this post he writes of "a struggle emanating from the military". BS!

The real armed force in SA is the National Guard. If they could let their commander, Prince Miteb b. Abdullah, be arrested without a squeak (in spite of their long association with his family), I don't see the army doing anything. As I said above, the whole kingdom is rotten to the core.

He also says that, after the death of his father, King Salman, MbS will face a backlash. I doubt that, too. His take is in line with that of the US establishment (especially the CIA), which lost many of its supporters in MbS's purge.

MbS sees the writing on the wall; he is moving SA out of the US's orbit and closer to that of Russia and China.

turcopolier

FB Ali

"which lost many of its supporters in MbS's purge" Any basis for this statement? IN SA if you associate with Americans you are automatically suspect. To recruit clandestine assets you have to be able to associate with people. In SA surveillance is everywhere. They follow people to your door and wait outside. detention is without habeas corpus and is unlimited in length. I suppose you could recruit Saudis in London or Nice if you could get their attention. Typically these wastrels and vapid billionaires have no serious interests. CIA's role in SA has always been almost entirely liaison to the Saudi service. I am sure that CIA has never been a political force in SA. pl

FB Ali

Col Lang,

I did not say that any of these people were CIA agents. What I said was that the US and the CIA lost many of their "supporters". By that I meant people who were pro-US or/and had good relations with the US government or the CIA. Such as former Crown Prince M b Nayef.

The Saudi royal family has always had good relations with the US, and on many occasions has acted on US requests (many call them directions). A lot of the royal princes had financial assets, residences and other ties to/in the US. Almost all of them who were in-country have been arrested by MbS.

turcopolier

FB Ali

"or the CIA.' No. As I have tried to tell you social interaction outside of government to government channels or business delegation visits is impossible. You greatly exaggerate the extent of US government leverage over SA. They are very good at flim-flamming us. pl

charly

Most opposition parties in Holland are also pro-EU or pro-EU if run differently and even Wilders party is against Eastern Europe but not really against a EU without Eastern Europe

charly

Iraq wasn't resupplied by Russia and China. Iran will be. Iran is also not an partly empty plain.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

My Photo

June 2019

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30            
Blog powered by Typepad