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21 October 2017

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Castellio

Polish Catholicism is different from Italian Catholicism (although I think the word "entirely" is the wrong modifier for different), which is also different from American Irish Catholicism.

Wasn't that my point? That using the word Catholic to build a predictive historical framework doesn't work – in fact – because of the differences being suppressed by a single concept?

Castellio

I don't deny the roots, I do deny I'm clueless.

Are you saying that post-Khomeini "Shia Doctors" are actually going to strengthen the Sufi traditions in East Africa?

Richardstevenhack

"Iran regularly issues all kinds of threats to Israel and to various Sunnis."

Citations, please. Preferably dated in a timeline. You can't do it. Whereas Israel has been pushing the US for war with Iran since forever and explicitly saying so.

"Your going to call me a racist or something, but you are not comprehending the middle-eastern mind, which is quite different from your own."

Whereas you are an expert in the "middle-eastern mind"? Based on what experience, education and training? The Colonel at least has all three.

Babak Makkinejad

No.

I am saying that you have two choices - bad and worse.

Kooshy

It’s a westerner perception that Ahmadinjad wants to wipe Israel off the map or Iran is ready to nuke the Jews.
I don’t blame them after all this has been a very successful misinformation by Israel and her western media lobby.
It’s too expensive and too difficult to change that now.
The closest thing to this perception of wiping out Israel I have ever heard is from SL ayatollah Khamenie, few years back after Iran was threaten by Israel to be attacked on nuclear sites, he said “ if Israel do this wrong we will level Tel Aviv and Hayfa to dust. IMO a weakend, laud and well behaved Israel is a Security intrest of Shia. Nutanyaho is certainly getting Israel there.

Eric Newhill

Richardstevenhack,
Nah. I know how this goes. I post something and then you attack the source, claim it's a bad interpretation, justify it as response to a provocation, etc.

My Middle Eastern family members and close friends of the family (Armenians, Lebanese, Chaldeans, Syrians) were always very concerned about me b/c I turned out blue eyes and fair skinned due to my mother's genetic influence. They spent extra time trying to toughen my mind so that I wouldn't be a bouncy overly optimistic soft minded American. They thought America was great and Americans wonderful people, but not realistic about life and not shrewd enough in business and other negotiations.

You can also learn a lot about how people think by sitting around for hours, over the course of years, playing tabli/tabla (you call it backgammon), listening to the political talk of your elders as they drink arak and wine or Turkish coffee. You want to pick up some of the language because the really passionate stuff is discuss in the native tongue and it sounds, and is, serious. Religion is very important and worth fighting and dying for. Zero sum is considered good. Everything is to be haggled over. Injustices and slights are remembered for generations and curses are leveled at the offenders. Sticking together is critical. Secrets are to be kept from outsiders. Maybe I experienced a skewed sample, but those are a few of my take-aways.

Babak Makkinejad

Sounds authentically Levantine.

Eric Newhill

Kooshy,
And the funding of various terrorist groups/anti-Israel groups by Iran? Those actions speak louder than words. I'm not taking sides here, but let's be honest. Iran has sponsored Israel's enemies.

Again I don't care who started what. Israel has a right to exist as much as any other country. Israel also has a right to defend itself. Furthermore, I don't blame Israel for suckering and bribing the US into being its handmaiden in the MENA. If the US is stupid and corrupt enough to do it, then so be it (from the Israel standpoint).

But please let's not pretend that Iran hasn't been behind a lot of problems for Israel's security.

different clue

Babak Makkinejad,

Parts of the situation might still be the same. UK would still have sought and received US assistance to remove Mossadegh and re-install the Shah. The KSA would still be coddled and humored and supported even in the face of its visible project to Wahhabify everything it could reach. Other parts might be very different.

Eric Newhill

Babak,
My grandmother would normally have been relegated to the kitchen to keep the coffee brewing and to produce after dinner pastries and sweets. However, coming from a relatively cosmopolitan successful merchant family on the Syrian border - and being an extremely intelligent woman - she had learned to speak several languages with a high degree of fluency; a high form of Armenian, Turkish, Arabic and French. By the time I was born, her English was quite good too. She insisted I learn French. I still retain some ability. So she acted as interpreter for some of those who spoke Arabic only. My grandfather was of peasant stock. He spoke a pigeon Armenian/Turkish. Most of the Lebanese spoke some kind of Armenian and Arabic. The Syrians spoke Arabic and French. My father was a lawyer and he served the Detroit area Christian immigrants from the MENA. The Chaldeans all aspired to own "party shops" (basically convenience stores that sold beer and liquor). He helped them set up their businesses. He was like a god father to all these people. He was a master of the English language and spoke Armenian very well. It was a very interesting childhood. My blue blood mother increasingly retreated into the WASP country club crowd that she preferred. As their divorce commenced they each fought for the right to direct my development into their respective cultures.

Castellio

There would have been no invasion of Iraq in 2003, for one, but fundamental differences would have started much earlier...

Kooshy

Eric as I wrote, IMO a self behaved Israel can be of a long term Security intrest of Iran, for that reason I don’t think Iran intends or will wipe Israel off the map anytime soon. However Iran for her own security against Sunni majority, cannot accept Israel’ freedom of action or expansion against her Arab neighbors, IMO,
that is the major point of conflict between Israel and Iran.
Secondly I don’t think Hezbollah is a terrorist organization IMO they are a legal resistant, military political organization fighting for thier country much like IRA. As
Said one man’ terrorist is another man’ freedom fighter.

james

the claims are dubious as i see it too.. however, they have been solidified thanks the corporate run western press and that is all that matters for those who want to continue to push a war on iran... i suppose it depends on what one would like to see from all this.. personally i don't see israel as being worth a war on iran.. now maybe the us congress people see it differently.. either way - israel is starting to fall behind the propaganda game here as i see it and they are going to have to think up something better to justify selling war on others 24/7, whether it be on iran, or syria..

james

stick with the story line.. iran wants to wipe israel off the map... anything else israel does will only be reported in some obscure media outlet, so as not to raise any suspicion over the basic story line that is meant to draw the usa into a war on iran...

mike

LeaNder -

Somewhere in the far, far past, I also heard 'doppelshisser'. Or maybe I am thinking of 'doppelschritt'? 'And also 'trippelschritt', but that can't be right, can it? Must have been GI Germanglish slang from a caserne in Heidelberg maybe?

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