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25 September 2017

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optimax

Col.

The first mistake was me conflating Obama's "Could have been my son statement." about Travon Martin with Michael Brown. "Should have been more careful" was a joke about Obama having an imaginary son. The joke bombed. The cop acted in self-defense.

Tim B.

Please note that I wrote "I believe the police are too quick to shoot unarmed Americans of all colors." You provided a data base showing 963 total documented police shootings last year. 48 were unarmed. 65 were "armed" with their vehicle. That's 113 unarmed Americans killed by the police. So yeah, I still think the police are too quick to shoot unarmed Americans when over 10% of the people they shoot to death are unarmed.

Fred

Stephanie,

1. Slavery: You mention slavery, I point out it exits today in Nigeria under Boko Harum. Michelle Obama is mentioned for the tweet, here:http://www.whydev.org/bringbackourgirls-hashtag-activism-and-the-diaspora/
2. Free speech: That's multiple posters above and Google is my referene:
http://www.npr.org/2017/08/08/542286029/google-memo-raises-questions-about-limits-of-free-speech-in-the-workplace
3: Baltimore- that is where the police killed Freddie Grey. For reference ask Black Lives Matter or a member of the Pittsburgh kneelers just what relvance his death has to what they are doing now.

Non-sequitor: That's your entire "I don't understand what you are talking about" post.

crone

Protesting? What? Most of them don't even know why they are kneeling. Poor choice of vehicle for protest... actually being disrespectful of our country's symbols does not elicit sympathy for whatever they are protesting. And I'm darn tired of "dog whistle" being used every time Trump says anything.

optimax

I think we should make the 1911 version of America The Beautiful our national anthem. It wouldn't change anything; the atheists wouldn't like it and the blacks would still want reparations, but it's a prettier song than The Star Spangled Banner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_the_Beautiful

TonyL

Hi Larry,

I might be able to answer your question. Yes, the south Vietnameses were anti-communist in ideological , religious, and geopolitical sense. It was mainly geopolitical sense in the first decade after 1954. But gradually, the brutal tactics of the VCs in guerrilla warfare had caused majority of farmers in the far South regions to hate but also deeply fear them.

TonyL

walrus,

I think you are wrong. DJT just used this occasion to score points with his base. I'd doubt he even thought and chose that battle. The guy just shoots from the hip.

And there is no groundswell against the NFL. Football is as popular as ever, if you've read raven's post above, the rating proved that. Perhaps that's what you would want to see, but reality does not support that analysis.

TonyL

Col,

"IMO it is fair to say that the non VC Southerners feared the rule of the Northern communist government. That is why so many fled when they lost their war"

You're are exactly right.

Harry

Forgive but the database you pointed to said there were 17 not 16 in 2016. Not including unarmed "hispanics" - 8. Not including those with an unspecified "unknown" weapon - 13. Not including those where a vehicle was cited as the weapon - 15. Not including those where the weapon was a toy - 13.

Worth also noting that there were 22 "unarmed" shooting deaths of whites.

Eric Newhill

Harry,
Maybe I missed one (or not). A vehicle can be a deadly weapon. So can a brick or rock. So can bare hands. What is your experience with policing? What is your experience with street fights?

I read one of the cases from 2016 involving an unarmed black male. he kicked open the door of the police car and assaulted the officer; attempting to strangle the officer with a set of handcuffs taken from the officer.

The Football players are not protesting the deaths of non-blacks. They've been very clear about that. Nor is Black Lives Matter (the name being the give away, but also the rhetoric they spew).

The fact that non-blacks who are unarmed - regardless of whether or not you think they should have been shot - are killed should dispel the myth that this a racist phenomenon; which is what is being claimed. So thanks for backing me up on that point.

16 or 17 blacks. How many are killed in US inner cities by other blacks. 16 or 17 is a tiny fraction of that number. Where are the protests of the gangs and other criminal elements? I repeat that this isn't about what they are saying it is.

Harry

So I should apply for US nationality!

Eric Newhill

TimB,
Here's the kicker. This is what BLM and football players believe, Black Lives Matter has proclaimed on its website that “Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise” and that “[e]very 28 hours a Black man, woman, or child is murdered by police or vigilante law enforcement.”

16 (or 17) unarmed blacks killed in a whole year.

That hardly drives the conclusion that BLM has reached. I'd expect a hell of a lot more unarmed black deaths if the manifesto is accurate, given the number of black/LEO interactions in a year.

You can lawyer around all you want, but the numbers don't lie. The protests are over propaganda BS

Greco

The NFL could in theory outlaw kneeling when the anthem is played and the players would have no legal recourse against it. So technically this is not something that qualifies as a natural or God given right. In fact, if Americans have an issue that they wish for the government to redress, then the First Amendment is clear on this, petition the government.

Stephanie

Fred,

I am obliged to you for proving my point.

I should also apologize to all for having allowed your reply to my post to provoke me into discussing the discussion.

Tim B.

Holder would need evidence showing beyond a reasonable doubt that the officer took the prohibited action in an attempt to deny the victim his civil rights. That evidence did not exist.

Federal civil rights law aside, I don't think Americans have any idea how the law favors a police officer who shoots someone. Basically, if the officer after the fact says "I thought my life was in danger" he will go free. The only police officer I am aware of who was criminally convicted for shooting someone shot an unarmed man, Oscar Grant, who was laying on his stomach. There was video of that shooting. It appears the officer drew and used his firearm when he intended to draw his taser. He was convicted of manslaughter. That's it.

There are more facts about the Oscar Grant shooting here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Oscar_Grant

Eric Newhill

Tim B,
You're still making an entirely different case than the protesters are. Black Lives Matter says that a black person is murdered by a racist system bent on genocide every 28 hours. If you do the math, that comes out to 313/year; which happens to be the number of blacks killed by law enforcement a few years ago - the year before the statement was written.

So what they are really saying is that NO death of a black person by law enforcement is acceptable to them. Not even if the black person gets killed in the act of committing a felony and shooting at LEOs first (which many of the 313 most certainly were).

This is, in effect, a declaration of war with lines being drawn along race. These people are in full on us versus them mode and nothing whites can do will appease them; short of dying off. They are utterly unreasonable. What they want is the freedom to run wild in the streets and to become a separate people within the geography of the United States. They also seek income confiscation and redistribution along racial lines. All the while calling whites racist.

It's all right there on their website if you were to take the time to see what they are actually saying as opposed to what you want to imagine they are. Or maybe you do know and are just trying to soft sell it here.

Too many virtue signaling SJWs have become their useful idiots - or just can't reason out what is happening.

Sam Peralta

I find it fascinating when the left argue for free speech when they're the ones opposing speech that offends their sensibilities. Of course the right do it too. Neither side really believes in free speech as they want to prevent speech they oppose. PC policing of speech is an attack on free speech.

Same with hate crimes & hate speech. If a black man who has BLM memorabilia attacks a white man is that a hate crime? If a white man who wears a swastika armband attacks a black man it is considered a hate crime. And any speech that calls out Israeli hypocritical behavior is considered anti-semitic.

As Fred noted, when Google fires a person for non-PC opinions, the left argue that such speech is not protected in the workplace and that Google has the right to enforce their standard for acceptable speech. An NFL team is no different than Google. So why can't the owner decide what is acceptable behavior when players are at work. Why is there a different standard for Google and a NFL team?

It seems everyone is for free speech except when it is speech they don't like.

Fred

Stephanie,

Thanks for doubling down.

Walrus

With respect, I fail to see how civil rights laws regarding discrimination on the basis of "race, gender, ethnicity or religion" is relevant in this matter. As Col. Lang also points out' first amendment rights is about restrictions on the government.

These are privately owned football teams engaged to play at private events. They are not national events in the way say, the Olympic games are. I fail to see how their actions are protected at least from their owners and other contractors. If the players wish to make political statements then they must bear the consequences.

crone

The online ticket reseller TickPick told Secrets that sales have dropped 17.9 percent, far more than the usual Week Three fall.

From TickPick:

17.9 percent decrease in NFL orders this week compared to the previous week.
Last year the drop was 10.8 percent in orders on Monday & Tuesday following Week Three games.

“We have seen a massive decrease in NFL ticket purchases this past week in comparison to years past. Week 3 seems to usually have less ticket orders than week 2, but this year ticket purchases are down more than 7 percent from this time last year,” said TickPick’s Jack Slingland. (read more) http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nfl-ticket-sales-plummet-179/article/2635955

optimax

The Star Spangled Banner is hard to sing. The singer butchered it at Green Bay tonight, as many do. Dixie is a catchier tune.

Fred

Harry,

Feel free. You've got 11,000,000 ahead of you.

Fred

TonyL,

I think you put Trump ahead of the actual creators of the issue. The Democrats, or in this case what would be more accurately called the alt-left, began with the same agenda seen in the presidential campaign a year ago: BLM and the brutality of the police.

Part of that agenda includes provoking their opponents to create at least one item that the left dominated media can lock onto to drive the narrative of the left. Trump short circuited them by shifting the visuals of Kapernick and company to frame this as showing a lack of patriotism and disrespect for veterans and the police. The left responded to that like a trout to a fly. Now they are hooked and desperate to shift the narrative to their favorite "whites are racist" and Trump is only tweeting to be divisive meme. (See CNN'so latest coverage). It isn't working. Meanwhile there is a real crisis in the Caribbean and a potential war in Korea.

Fernando L

Seems to me they could protest on their own, they should not protest when they are working. I'm also a bit lost regarding what the protest is about, kneeling doesn't really team me what's their specific complaint.

They can choose to behave like oafs, and the audience can choose to watch something else if the team owner allows such coarse behavior.

Dr.Puck

Eric wrote: you are trying to cast dispersions upon him personally and then use that to say that he has no right to criticize the sportsballers - or say that I can't criticize the sportsballers on their being a part of a larger revolution

I said no such thing. (In response to you I have steered the thread away from the NFL brouhaha.)

Anyway. You make my point for me. If who President Trump "is as a person" doesn't matter to a single degree, then there's no hook to hang any traditionalism on.

Ironically, as it turns out--but is not surprising to anyone who knows his biography and spent time in NYC in the eighties--the POTUS is not: ruthless, a deal maker, or someone anchored to his (campaign trail) promises.

I do not need to watch pop psychologists. Trump's mental problems are both obvious and subject to expert appraisal. Yet, in your view this would hardly matter. It's all about coming through for his politically small minority, you know, the one that elected him. That appraisal is just a matter of sociological numbers.

How has been doing? Inasmuch as the executive branch can dial back the so-called administrative state, I'd give him high marks. Immigration authorities have deported lots of illegals. Very good!

Politically he has accomplished the switcheroo of morphing the swamp from establishment special interests to the 'left,' but, alas, he has also--from another angle--created one of the most massive swamps in American history.

Luckily, the base behind Trumpism apparently just wants lots of bombs thrown, lots of vicious schoolyard tweets, lots of dominance behavior (from a "Cluster B malignant narcissist,") and lots of campaign-style frothing rallies to gin up the fantasy of...

Heck, Eric I don't know what the fantasy is! At one time, Trump, for example, promised the "best, most beautiful health care ever, lower premiums, lower copays and deductibles, and better coverage," and then he was crestfallen when the GOP couldn't manage to throw 30 million people off their healthcare welfare.

I do know from local, informal, qualitative research that many northern Ohio, actual Trump supporters do have a somewhat shared hope: to return to the fifties when men supported their families, women raised the kids, hard working white men were the exemplars of faith and patriotism, and, there were not daily interactions with people speaking a foreign language.

So, there's that. What is your vision of MAGA?


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