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08 September 2017

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Philippe

"and then respond in some asymetric way"

Totally agree, ex-PFC Chuck. That's Vlad method since the beginning of Russia's involvement. Contrary to US with his "obligatory Grand Standing" responses and postures. It's not - It has never been - a question of proud ness mal placée, just efficiency. That's the only real metric.

Ex 11B

Thus the moniker I assigned them...cheap whores. At least sell us out for more than that. Its pathetic

Philippe

Quotes : "Send the foreign nationals (...) back to where they came from."

"lose their American citizenship and are deported, their property confiscated."

"only way to eliminate the infestation."

Hmmm, very disturbing remembrance here, sir, to say the least. Have you lost any memory of the last century ? That's the kind of phraseology which has preceded one of the worst time of our western culture.

And, in case of, no, I have no sympathy for the Zionist ideology, quite the contrary. But I'm French, and I know first hand the dark follies bred by this social disease : antisemitism.

BrotherJoe

Did the russian attacks on the oil convoys damage the oil infrastructure or hinder reconstruction?

turcopolier

Brother Joe

Obama was the sentimental fathead that he often is. No, Russian bombing did not damage the oil facilities. that is what the US command told Obama but he would not listen. POTUS has absolute command. pl

Philippe

Meta-comment - first part to be deleted.

Really sorry, Colonel, I have mistyped the HTML end mark for "italics".

here it is :

turcopolier

Phillippe

I see that you are on "laposte.net" Is that expensive? you say these "quotes" ar equotes. If they are you must give us citations. If they are your inventions or a reference to historical statements say so. Don't imply that these are quotations from real Americans if they are not. pl

Klaus Weiß

Unfortunately, Germany, the most influential and strongest European country is excluded from this discussion for historical reasons. Russia, or: the Soviet Union, has been the strongest supporter of Israel over the centuries. Without the USSR there wouldn't be a Jewish state in the Middle East. The incremental genocide of the Palestinian people has been ignored by every American administration since Reagan (remember him urging Begin to stop the holocaust in Beirut in 1982). Israel will get away with it.

DH

I agree with Chuck, too. Give them enough rope to hang themselves. But what would the asymmetric response be? I guess taking back the Golan would be 'too soon.'

jdledell

I can assure all of you that Israel would definitely rather have ISIS on their Golan Heights border than Hezballah. While my sources in Israel are unable to determine if this is Israel's official strategic position, the talk in the IDF definitely prefers ISIS. The IDF is very concerned about Hezballah's military capabilities - they fight like an organized military unit with effective communications and intelligence gathering capabilities. This is much more effective than a bunch of ISIS crazies running around shooting their guns but much less organized than Hezballah. The IDF will probably never forget their experience invading Lebanon.

LG

sir, he quoted parts of ex 11b's comments to this post (comment #14)

Huckleberry

However controversial, I have learned that it all makes more sense if you stop saying Israelis and start saying "Jews."

Then, if you simply insert "goyim" for every other group of people the Jews deal with, the clarity becomes terrifying.

Dancing around this for reasons of political correctness is suicidal.

Anna

"...that kinda explains why the usa for the longest time was always turning a blind eye to isis presence in syria and iraq - looking after israel was at the top of their agenda..."
You mean, Israel has been looking after Israel from the ziocon-occupied USA?

Anna

"...Israel is doing everything it can to provoke a Russian response..."
Actually, Israel has been behaving in the most sheepish (and dishonorable) manner re Russian Federation. Israel's provocations have been enormously harmful for Syria, but Israel is powerless to provoke Russia to a point of the US initiation of the WWIII. Such engagement would be a quick end of Israel, forever.

Lemur

In New Zealand we often have sheep dog trials at our rural events. The objective is to herd sheep through various obstacles in the least amount of time. A good dog learns the optimal strategy is to control the general direction of the sheep. It's almost impossible to directly control every movement of such volatile animals. So the dog follows a few meters behind, running two and fro in an arc of about 60 degrees, funneling the sheep toward a fixed point.

Russia is pursuing a similar strategy. In conjunction with Iran and Turkey, they're gradually building a regional matrix of power that simply circumscribes the field of choice available to Israeli leaders. Israel can still run hither and thither between a shrinking set of responses, but none of these matter if they're being systematically excluded from the high ground of the regional security complex.

Anna

The previous suggestion that Syrians/Russians should provide Lebanese with the effective defensive weaponry (for example, manpads) seems a right way to show Israelis their proper place. Enough already. Would not it be great if the US re-channels the "Israeli" $$billions towards helping the US citizens in Texas, Luisiana, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina?

Anna

Please, do not conflate anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. The ziocons have inflicted an enormous harm through their treachery and disloyalty. Perhaps you are not aware of their role in the promoting the crimes against humanity in the name of Greater Israel. Would you agree that the long prison terms for the warmongering ziocons would be better solution than sending them to live in their pet project or you believe that any investigation of ziocons' crimes would be antisemitic? http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=amid1982perlefeith

Lemur

I thought he sounded quite reasonable.

The Holocaust doesn't exempt the Jews from us parsing their behavour, and responding appropriately (this being the key word) to it when it runs contrary to our interests. There is no apriori reason why a justified counter-semitic position cannot be taken. If John Doe is falsely accused of a crime, or disproportionately punished for one; it does not now follow John can never commit a crime or be punished for doing so. You're kidding yourself if you think opposing Zionism, a non-trivial strand of Jewish culture, is not a form of anti-antisemitism.

I also resent the implication because one expression of Western civilization at a specific point in time did something wrong, all of Western civilization is suspect and must be put on probation. Apparently the second we have a self-affirmative about ourselves we must instantly wonder: would a Jew feel conformable about my inner disposition?

We're stepping over this moral dreck. We won't survive if our organizing motif is a negative.

Bandolero

pl

Is Israel testing Russia - or is it more like Israel is testing the US?

Sure, Israel is testing Russia, but from what I read from a guy called Elliott Abrams over there at the CFR blog, it looks to me even more like Israel is testing the US. Quote begin:

"Israel's Bombing of a Weapons Factory in Syria: What Comes Next?

... Israel has given the United States fair warning that there are limits to what Israel will tolerate in Iranian conduct and the Iranian presence in Syria. ... Israel is also acting in part because the United States does not seem willing to restrain Iran in any serious way in Syria. We are doing less, not more, while the Assad regime’s forces and Iran’s gain ground. ... What would be useful at this point, it seems to me, is a statement by the United States that we approve of the action Israel took, and that in the event of a conflict Israel would have our support in defending itself—for example by allowing the Israelis to have access to the stocks of weapons that we store in Israel. This is the billion-dollar stockpile of ammunition, vehicles, and missiles in the “War Reserve Stockpile Ammunition-Israel.” Such a statement might, like the Israeli bombing of the weapons factory in Syria, help persuade Iran and Syria to observe the limits Israel is imposing, and might help avoid a wider conflict.

Quote end. Source: https://www.cfr.org/blog/israels-bombing-weapons-factory-syria-what-comes-next-2

Yeah, Right

An appropriate response from Russia would be one that doesn't escalate the situation but puts a stop to the IAF making user of Lebanese airspace.

Transferring AA missiles to Hezbollah wouldn't do it: that would be an intolerable escalation in Netanyahu's eyes, one that runs the risk of causing the Israelis to launch a war on Lebanon under some thinly-veiled pretext.

But how about Putin wangling an "invitation" from the Lebanese govt to mount standing patrols of SU-27 fighters over Lebanon?

From the perspective of int'l law that would be perfectly legal, and Israel would have no legitimate reason to challenge those patrols while on the other hand those Russian jets would have a legitimate reason to challenge any Israeli jet that enters Lebanese airspace.

No idea if the Lebanese govt would be open to issuing such a request, but it would certainly cause consternation amongst the Israelis and do so in such a way that limits their ability to run to Washington crying foul.

After all, the correct response to an airspace that is patrolled by Russian fighter jets is.... not to fly your own aircraft into that same airspace.

Anything else is *you* provoking *them*, not vice versa.

turcopolier

All

Whoever turned on the italics, turn them off! pl

Willybilly

When over Lebanon's territory, Israeli jets fly very high, well above manmads reach... When they attack Syrian territory, it always happens at night, very low altitude and lightning fast, over and out in a flash.... Hizbullah has manmads, SAM8s, and other systems in place...., but the decision to show its hand has not been necessary for now...., but they do not have BUKS for sure.....

Bandolero

All

What I find quite interesting is the question whether Putin may link his reaction in the UNO to the recent NK nuclear test to the US reaction to this Israeli attack on the Syrian military facility. I looked to find a discussion of that possible Russian option somewhere, especially in Israeli and US media, but I failed.

Any suggestions?

Stumpy

attempt to clear italic

Stumpy

attempt to clear italic

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