Charlottesville - 1 by cvillereader

"The last time I checked, the Virginia State Police and the Virginia National Guard are not small time operations. Both of them were on the scene and did nothing.

And McAuliffe is on the record saying that the State had planned for months for this, and that he thought the policing of the protests was a success.

Charlottesville City Council is up to their necks in this, and is dominated by Leftists. This includes the mayor, who was educated at Berkeley, teaches at UVa, and has long and deep connections with McAuliffe.

They used this event as a way to score political points. Disgraceful.

I will also point out that long after the police broke up the rally, and most of Unite the Right group had departed, they allowed Antifa and their supporters to roam the sidewalks and streets of downtown Charlottesville armed with bats and pepper spray.

There is no explaining this away, because the internet is filled with videos that show this."  cvillereader

----------------

Perhaps "cvillereader" could explain to us what polling and public opinion in Charlottesville has been with regard to the statue and the mayor/city council.  pl

Comments

[Cvillereader]

Unfortunately, I don't think most people in Charlottesville have a problem with the way things were handled.

It is stunning to me that the Virginia ACLU has condemned the actions of Mayor Signer, though.

But as you pointed out, Charlottesville and Albelmarle County are blue islands in a sea of red. It will be interesting to see how things play out.

[Lemur]

The left is trying to blame the right for the 'violence' after they engineered circumstances such that clashes would invariably erupt between leftist attack dogs and the attendees of the rally (who had a legal permit and did not initiate violence). If you take the constitution seriously, everyone has the right to peaceably assemble without being attacked.

It's unclear exactly what happened with the car incident.

That said, the rally was an embarrassment from a PR perspective, and was less a positive statement of what the alt-right stands for than an IRL demonstration of how alienation affects those of conservative inclination in an epoch of dissolution (gleefully promulgated by the cultural left and the economic right). We're seeing the wages of 'diversity', 'tolerance', and 'political correctness' play out in real time.

According to research from the Hispanic Heritage Association, 86% of white Generation Z boys would have voted for Trump, along with 70% of white girls. Unlike their boomer grandparents and liberal Gen X parents, the Zees experience of cultural 'enrichment' and 'vibrancy' up close and personal. White America is rapidly lurching right. As Julian Assange pointed out on Twitter a few days ago, the American electorate is fracturing along racial lines. It began with Trump, who won every class of white Americans except cat ladies with post-graduate degrees. Soon, the only whites left in the Democratic party will be upper middle close coastal snobs and 1%ers.

C'ville is the cartoon version of this quarrel, a sort of hyper-reality running parallel to the MAGA - Stronger Together conflict. This clash ultimately isn't about the assorted stable of minorities. It's a plurality of coastal whites using the so-called 'POC' and mass immigration to wipe out the political clout of the majority group of whites they intensely dislike. This majority has started to realize the fate envisioned for them, and is beginning to fight back.

[Fredw]

I'm sorry, but the internet is full of all kinds of things. I believe "anecdotes" is the technical term. There are always some idiots around to provide good video. If you show me video of actual violence, then I will take that seriously. But the actual violence that I know of came from a 20-year old with serious anger issues. He should now have many years in prison to confront his issues and grow out of them. Not a leftist, by the way. And his actions fit well with the rhetoric, if not the actions, of the "rightists".

I am always amazed at how people spouting threatening rhetoric are so taken aback by any similar response. And I am old enough to remember how California was an open carry state until black panthers began carrying. Some people need to keep in mind that whatever the rules are, they are supposed to apply to everyone.

[Anna]

http://www.unz.com/article/unite-the-right-who-got-it-right/#comment-1968108
"That’s right: The problem was white nationalist violence. It was as if the demonstrators had behaved just like Black Lives Matter or masked antifa: looting, burning, stopping traffic, and roughing up bystanders. Of course, what caused the violence was hostile counter-demonstrators, many of them wearing helmets and carrying shields. If they had not been there, there would have been no violence, and the rally would have taken place as planned."
A complementing perspective: "What You Wish Upon Others, You Wish Upon Yourself." http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/08/charlottesville-what-you-wish-upon-others-you-wish-upon-yourself.html
A question to the U.S liberals: "Julian Assange asks why the US said nothing when Obama supported Ukrainian neo-Nazis" http://theduran.com/julian-assange-asks-us-said-nothing-obama-supported-ukrainian-neo-nazis/

[Cvillereader]

I am not defending the actions of Fields. At first glance, it appears that he is the stereotypical young man (booted from Army, perhaps unemployed and with mental problems) that gets attracted to white supremacist ideology.

What I do question, however, are the policing decisions that were made that allowed a mob of protesters to block the streets. The street that the homicide occurred on is lined with several street level parking lots and a high rise parking lot. There is clear video evidence that the Antifa protesters were harassing people who were trying to access their cars and leave the area.

[Fred]

Fredw,

"Some people need to keep in mind that whatever the rules are, they are supposed to apply to everyone."

I agree. Can you point me to a link showing BLM or Antifa had a permit to rally?

"He should now have many years in prison to confront his issues and grow out of them."
Yes, just like the DisruptJ20 inauguration day protestors:
http://www.disruptj20.org/event/disruptj20-protest-the-inauguration-of-donald-trump/
https://www.buzzfeed.com/zoetillman/as-prosecutors-press-new-felony-charges-inauguration-day?utm_term=.swZkqgVLy#.hwbxbRenO

[Croesus]

Back in 2000 - 2004 when I lived in Charlottesville, a "free speech" board had been erected, at the end of the Mall near where there was an amphitheater (iirc). Somehow, Peter Jefferson was involved. Is the Free Speech wall still there?

Also -- be aware that action is underway to change Monticello from a monument to Thomas Jefferson, Father of his country, to an emphasis on Thomas Jefferson's Slave Plantation. https://www.c-span.org/video/?426148-1/slavery-thomas-jeffersons-monticello

[Cvillereader]

I am often on the mall in the summer, but not quite as far down as City Hall, which is where the board is. The last time I was there, the board was still there.

And I do know about the rumblings about Jefferson. Maybe they will eventually even remove the crossed swords from the Cavalier logo!

I think some of this has to do with long term plans for economic development in the area. There are civic leaders who have big plans for Charlottesville, and a lot of that has to with attracting certain kinds of industries and people to the area. Being tarnished as a backward, Southern city damages the image that some people are trying to project.

I was most interested in Signer's comments over the weekend about ideas and movements that belong in the trash heap of history.

[BillWade]

the far left: "we won"
the far right: "we won"
the rest of us: "we all lost"

[Red Cloud]

The MSM message seems to be: "Being racist is unacceptable but violently shutting down free speech is perfectly fine."

[BillWade]

whoops, forget to add

The globalists:

"The far left has been won over, they are deluded as well as is the far right, too bad the rest of them know the truth, we'll have to work on them some more"

[Philippe T.]

In June 2013, in Paris, an antifa leader, Clément Méric, mounted an ambush against 3 extreme-right youngsters (2 males, 1 female). During the street fight, C. Méric received a punch in the face and died. Since, there is repeated demonstrations of antifas against "fascism" in France. The socialist government used this pretext to disband many right-wing groups. Two young proletaires, Esteban Morillo et Samuel Dufour, are waiting to be judged. E. Morillon spent one year in jail.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Cl%C3%A9ment_M%C3%A9ric

[turcopolier]

all

Ralph Northam, the Democratic candidate for governor is not running well in the polls. I suspect that McCauliffe is looking to firm up their base and make himself look good to the left. pl

[johnf]

This story, if true, seems to put several spanners into several works simultaneously:

"Ukraine denies selling North Korea nuclear missile engines"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/14/ukraine-denies-selling-north-korea-nuclear-missile-engines/

[Stephanie]

The far right lost. They were the aggressors for all to see and the PR disaster is such that Republicans across the spectrum have been uncommonly forceful in their condemnations regardless of the risk of offending part of their base. It will also in future be that much harder to preserve Confederate statues, which will now be irretrievably linked with their neo-Nazi "defenders."

[Cvillereader]

It is not clear at all to me that the far right were the aggressors. That assumes of course that you don't think their presence in and of itself was an act of aggression. If you do, then I suggest you take another look at the first amendment.

The failure of people like you to acknowledge the many acts of violence committed by the counter-protesters may have the opposite effect of what you may think.

Because it pushes a lot of folks who are not extremists farther and farther to the right.

[Hood Canal Gardner]

Gosh Pat .. do you really think that McCauliffe past being that tempted (sic)? We have only just begun to see/hear the spin on this one .. cheap ta/da MSM news. Rest assured that on both sides the "semi-automatic locked and loadeds" are tanking-up for the next go-round. Not nice/surely we're better than that.

[turcopolier]

HCG

Gosh, yes! pl

[DH]

Once on C-SPAN, Brian Lamb was hosting a remote tour of George Washington's home, Mount Vernon. He was interviewing a black woman, a reenactor, who was sitting in a cozy slave cabin, wearing a nice colonial dress. At the same time, Brian was taking viewer calls. One lady called and berated Washington for being a slave owner. The reenactor said (paraphrase), "Oh, he wasn't that bad," and if memory serves, didn't add anything else.

[BillWade]

You probably don't read "alt-right" web sites. They believe this was a victory of sorts, they believe that ultimately the law is on their side and lawsuits will be flying soon.

Oddly enough, this Kessler fellow, the organizer of the "Unite the Right" rally, was a once an Occupy Wall Street type and Obama supporter, strange, no?

source: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jason-kessler

[Bill Herschel]

b's post that the Left in the U.S. supports neo-Nazi's in Ukraine and condemns them in the U.S. is very hard to controvert, but I would add that anyone who wants to have a statue of Robert E. Lee removed is compelled morally to also want the removal of the Washington Monument and most especially the Jefferson Memorial. I favor removing all three.

[turcopolier]

DH

I was once at Carter's Grove, a plantation belonging to Colonial Williamsburg with some foreign guests. A docent took the larger group we had attached ourselves to down to the slave cabins. The group was from somewhere south of Virginia. The docent/guide told the crowd that these poor people had been forced to live on cornbread, collards and parts of hogs like smoked hocks. Nobody reacted so she asked "how would you like to eat hominy grits every day?" one woman in the group said," would you like my recipe for grits?" pl

[DH]

Perfect.

[Stephanie]

Extremes meet, I guess.

If they do see this as a win, I think they have it wrong. They’ve forced Republican officials and pols to come out firmly against them, the White House is already walking back Trump’s initial statement, and their standardbearer just insulted a rich black businessman. Even Jeff Sessions has had to promise to come after them. Until recently they were just a gaggle of harmless fringies, and now they have people scared. They’ve been feeling their oats and went too far.

(In the process they are also tarnishing what Joseph E. Johnston would call the “fair fame” of my favorite WBS general, so I’m peevish. Isn’t there a statue of Braxton Bragg they can rally around?)

[Lyttenburgh]

Despite the fact that it IS entertaining to see Poroshenko and Turchinov twisting themselves trying to prove the allegations wrong (Turchinov already said that the NYT article "[I]s not based on any grounds, provocative by its content, and most likely provoked by Russian secret services to cover their own crimes,"(c)". Like, remember that time when Poroshenko also accused the NYT editorial board of all the people of being Kremlin Stooges? Here you go! EuroUkrs truly believe that the rest of the world functions by the similar, ah, "rules"

The fact that Yuzhmash was dying out became apparent in 2015. Newsflash - all Ukrainian heavy industry is dying. Yes, that includes the MIC of the Ukraine, whatever remains of it. Remember "Antonov"? Gone. Some engineers relocated to Russia, others, reportedly, are planning to restart the whole enterprise... in China. Whenever you read the Ukrainian news about this or that long established military hardvare factory, you will encounter only the stories about them closing down, or that they have no money to pay the workers, or that they hade to downsize the workforce. Oh, but everyone and their dog in the Ukrainian (and among the lazy Western MSM) pushes up the trope, that "the Ukrainian Army of today is much stronger than the one after the Maidan".

The story of Yuzhmash (which from making rocket engines now switched to making trams) sound plausible. We had it here in Russia in the 90s. A not so distant relative of mine worked on UWZ at the time. They, naturally, were not paid any money for months. Then in either 1996 or 1997 a miracle happened - Iraq send nearly 20 of its tanks there for upkeep, repair and upgrade. They gave enough money for the factory to be able pay their workers salaries for months! But after that - nothing.

Of course, Poroshenko will claim to the "Civilized World" that he had no idea that the state owned enterprise of Yuzhmash sold anything to the NK. And they will swallow that, cuz... Russia and stuff.