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21 July 2017

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Greco

Very nicely put.

turcopolier

sid_finster

How many times must I define Borg for you people? It is the foreign policy establishment as Obama called it. This is the collective globalist mind formed in graduate schools over many decades. This collective treasures the idea of the end of history and a brave new world that is essentially one political order and economy under US supervisor. This collective includes the media, academia, some government people, some military people and almost all of the FP intelligentsia. I see no sign as yet that Borgism has come to be the religion of the career government. Therefore there is no Deep State. pl

Stephanie

The article reads "contrary to public assertions by the embattled attorney general, according to current and former U.S. officials."

Later in the article:

"But U.S. officials with regular access to Russian intelligence reports say Kislyak — whose tenure as ambassador to the United States ended recently — has a reputation for accurately relaying details about his interactions with officials in Washington."

Sounds very much like the present tense.

This information is likely not new and there's no reason for Democratic sources to sit on it; Sessions is about the worst modern AG any liberal, moderate or otherwise, can imagine. Sessions' boss has openly proclaimed his lack of confidence in and anger at his subordinate in terms which would have induced most honorable people to resign. Alas for Trump, Sessions isn't that guy. Trump doesn't want Sessions there and he also doesn't want to cause another firestorm by firing him since there are other firings that may be coming down the line. The real question is whether the Administration is savvy enough to undermine Sessions in this way, since flaying him publicly obviously didn't work.


turcopolier

luxetveritas

"why would Kislyak misrepresent the meetings to his bosses?" In my experience ambassadors often lie to their bosses to make themselves look good with regard to their local contacts on post. New subject: A "war room" exists, probably within the former Clinton apparat for the purpose of generating daily press crises and timing them to maximum effect. pl

turcopolier

Stephamie

This is press weasel wording. You notice they did not say WHEN these officials had regular access. IMO the "current officials" part is just press trickery to "cover" their sources. pl

Karl Kolchak

I'm more concerned with the precedent this is creating where all future presidents will be facing such leaks from IC officials who disagree with official policy. In their blind hatred of Trump, the leakers are dangerously undermining the republic. If their actions are allowed to stand unpunished, the very idea of American democracy will be dead and buried.

turcopolier

Karl Kolchak

"from IC officials" The heads of agencies are politicians, not intelligence people no matter what their origin might be. pl

VietnamVet

Colonel,

This is what puzzles me about the Trump Administration. If the White House went after the leakers and white-collar criminals; the globalist coup would be terminated promptly. My guess is that Donald Trump, being an oligarch in good standing, can’t conceive of himself as being a deplorable subject to the rule of law or using the Constitution to neuter his opponents. The intelligence community is leaking because they can. The world in chaos will keep getting worse until corporate executives, plutocrats and their mercenaries are jailed for their crimes. The five men own half of the world’s wealth are plump targets. It is the height of stupidity to dismantle government and society (the law, police and military) that protects them to cut their taxes.

iowa steve

Generally, the First Amendment is considered to protect the right of the press to publish such material, at least since the Pentagon papers/NYTimes Supreme Court ruling of the early 70s. There is a caveat to that jurisprudence in that the publishing entity cannot actively participate in the theft of the information. They can receive it and publish it only. The word "participation" is of course open to interpretation.

On a related note, an internet joke du jour is since civil forfeiture is based on government allegations rather than conviction, why not hoist Sessions on his own petard and seize his assets based on allegations of perjury? Yes, just a joke.

Greco

The Deep State, as I understand it, is broadly defined as a shadow/secret government. I think we should be more specific and define it as hostile, deeply entrenched bureaucrats and policy makers who serve an agenda independent of the American voter. The term itself I think owes its origins with "Deep Throat," the alias used by the primary source of the damaging leaks that ultimately took down President Dick Nixon.

I disagree that the concept of the Borg in itself disqualifies the possiblity of a Deep State, but the concept of the Borg does rationalize much of the thought process that has come to define the establishment.

With respect to the possibility of a Deep State, there was a group of high level individuals in the State Department that plotted to control the release of records pertaining to the FBI investigation into's Hillary private email server. They were even described by name as a "Shadow Government." There was also alledgedly an underhanded effort by the deputy secretary of state, Pat Kennedy, to bribe an FBI investigator by offering a quid pro quo arrangment of some kind.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/17/fbi-releases-100-new-pages-on-clinton-email-probe.html

I think these considerations in themselves aren't necessarily proof of a Deep State, but they illustrate that something along the lines of a Deep State could indeed exist in the government.

Babak Makkinejad

Did not the leaking of the US National Intelligence Estimate on Iran help the United States; in as much as it drained the War Party swamp?

turcopolier

Babak


The 2007 NIE on Iran had a public summary    The Borg never alllowed that again. Pl

ISL

I caution SST to take a grain of salt with juan cole's musings.

On issues of Palestine/Israel he is reasonably neutral, on many of the foreign policy adventures of the Obama administration he tended to forget key information to the point I wondered if he writes under contract. Libya was a case in point.

Stumpy

A former official. The beltway bubble never fails to disappoint.

A competent agency would keep this type of information under their belt until they had the certainty to confront a US cabinet-level politician with incontrovertible evidence.

Alternatively, use the recordings to flip the ambassador into our service.

After a while, bell fatigue sets in and the dogs no longer drool.

turcopolier

ISL
It is NSA's statutory mission to disseminate intercepts directly to the rest of the IC and to designated consumers. It has always been thus. NSA IS not an analytic agency of the IC. You want to change that law? pl

turcopolier

Greco

IMO you understand "it" wrong. What I hear from a lot of you is a Deep Ignorance of how the "bureaucracy" as you call it works and its attiude twoward any politically appointed or elected government. have you ever been a "bureaucrat? pl

ISL

Fred:

Why not? Answer: Dont pick a fight you will lose, bigly.

How do you think the nationalization (oops forfeiture) on trumped up charges (how all the media will report it) of a fortune 500 company assets will play out. Oh, and lets not forget the first amendment that protects the free speech rights of corporate and private money.

Amazon likely spends more on legal than DOJ with far better lawyers (best lawyers go for the best money). Add in Bezos $600 million contract with the CIA, knowledge of how many sex toys, negligees not of the size of the wife, etc., each congressman bought on Amazon, etc.... Session aint stupid.

Anti-trust is how to go after Bezos/Amazon, but definitely not on the Trump agenda.

turcopolier

VV

IMO DJT's arrogance as a "master of the universe" is the main obstacle to crushing the Borgist plot against him. IMO he can't believe that he cannot just bulldoze the Borg as he did his adversaries in the Manhattan real estate sewer. pl

The Twisted Genius

J,

It's all symbolic at this point. The Republican House is in no mood to even think about impeachment. No matter what the Mueller and Schneiderman investigations come up with, I don't think a Republican House will ever be in mood for impeachment. Even if they decide Trump is a liability, I think they will determine impeachment will be even more of a liability.

turcopolier

TTG

IMO it is not a question of "the Republican House." It is a question of the ultimate state of fear on the part of individual members of not being re-elected that is trump's major danger. In my experience members of congress are worried about only one thing - re-election. pl

DH

What more is needed? Lots of people don't pay attention to the MSM. He cooly brands WaPo as a corporate entity, defends Sessions, and smacks down wienie Comey. Kind of makes Trump look like a lone gun-slinger...too far?

The Twisted Genius

luxetveritas,

Judging by your comments on TAO, It doesn't appear you know your ass from a hole in the ground. I've worked with TAO for years. You are wrong on all counts beginning with what TAO stands for and its size and tumbling further down the rabbit hole from there.

Babak Makkinejad

Understood, thanks - the distinctions had escaped me.

Babak Makkinejad

I think that Borg spans multiple countries; most of Western European states, New Zealand, Australia, and even Braxil.

The Twisted Genius

pl,

You're right about the centrality of re-election, but I think most Republicans are in fear of being primaried out if they engage in any talk of impeachment. Trump's base is most powerful at the party primary level.

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