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23 April 2017

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LeaNder

Larry, I struggled with the admirers of these pseudo-martyrs for longer then I wish to remember on the US web. It's gets enormously tiring after a while. Where to start? How resistant are they to reason?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolperstein

jld

No, it won't do anything.
Never underestimate the stupidity and ultra-short attention span of the public (and not just American public)

confusedponderer

Croesus ,
"Rudolf demonstrated that Xyklon-B was evident in facilities used to de-louse clothing, etc. to prevent typhus, but not in facilities alleged to have been used in a "planned, systematic, industrialized scheme to exterminate every Jew Hitler could get his hands on,"

You're kidding?

Well, face it: Whatever Rudolf 'demonstrated', apparently Zyklon B gas WAS used in the third Reich in a 'systematic, industrialized scheme'. After all, in late 1944 Mr. Himmler ordered gassing operations TO CEASE across the Reich.

That means there WERE gassing operations going on, beyond delousing.

And as for "facilities alleged to have been used" ... well, have you ever visited a KZ? I did, visited Dachau, and it made me want to puke every 5 minutes.

IMO there likely was a reason why a lot of people who were involved in such gassing operations chose to commit suicide, ran away or go to hide under a new name. If they were caught, they were usually long jailed or executed for their crimes - for a reason.

Think of the fate of Mr. Eichmann, who protocolled the Wannsee Conference, and after the war hid in Argentina re-named Ricardo Klement. He was eventually arrested, moved to Israel, tried and hanged.

Apparently neither germans like Eichmann nor the allied or israeli trial judges did think this was just about 'allegations'. No, this was about real and savage and utterly ruthless mass murder, and responsible criminals running away from punishment.

confusedponderer

Pat,
"I have no doubt about Zyklon-B at Auschwitz. pl "

Amen. Neither do I,
best,
CP

William R. Cumming

What third parties seized the Assad stockpiles and verified their contents destruction and/or distribution without destruction?

Generalfeldmarschall von Hindenburg

I've got a lot of questions about the official Holocaust narrative. But heaven help anyone who questions the smallest part of it.
One big problem with addressing any of that stuff is that many of the people who do seem to propagate the idea that the Nazis were nice guys and that concentration camps were just big holiday camps. I've spoken to two people who were long ago tracked down by the authorities in the Netherlands, robbed of their belongings, stuffed into rail cars and shipped off to work camps where they were put to work on short rations. They were not treated kindly. Even some of the most staunch admirers of the 3d Reich's military machine who want to soft-pedal the regime behind its treatment of subject populations have to admit that the Germans and their puppet forces (like Ukrainians for instance) went through Europe like Genghis Khan went through Persia. Their whole ethos from top to bottom was rule through total abject terrorism. Turns out people didn't respond so well to that.

optimax

Marko

Postol did NOT make a 180 degree pivot. He said the the corrected wind direction is 180 degrees different than his original calculations. The dead goat is now in the opposite direction of what would have been the contaminated area and he has more to say:

"This assessment with corrected wind directions leads to a powerful new set of questions—especially, why were the multiple sets of journalists who were filming at the crater where the alleged sarin release occurred not showing the numerous victims of the alleged release who would have been immediately next to the area?

It is now clear that the publicly available evidence shows exactly where the mass nerve agent poisoning would have occurred if in fact there was an event where significant numbers of people were poisoned by a nerve agent release. This does not rule out the possibility of a nerve agent release somewhere else in the city. However, this completely discredits the WHR’s claims that those who wrote the report knew where the nerve agent release occurred and that they knew the nerve agent release was the result of an airdropped munition."

robt willmann

Earlier today regarding Syria, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury Steve "The Foreclosure King" Mnuchin announced sanctions against 271 Syrian scientific people, "in response to the April 4, 2017 sarin attack on innocent civilians in Khan Sheikhoun, Syria, by the regime of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad," as phrased in the press release--

https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/sm0056.aspx

https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/OFAC-Enforcement/Pages/20170424.aspx

However, someone else has surfaced who makes Mnuchin look like a choirboy. Paul Wolfowitz -- remember him? -- is now thinking that Trump may not be so bad after all. Like the other neocons, the motto of Wolfowitz is, "Let's you and them fight."--

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/24/paul-wolfowitz-donald-trump-iraq-middle-east-215065

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/17/AR2007051700216.html?hpid%3Dtopnews&sub=AR

Wolfowitz claimed that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 would largely pay for itself, and that the bulk of the money for Iraq's reconstruction (after the U.S. smashed it) would come from Iraqis. Iraq's reconstruction? What reconstruction?

Ante

Marko
I agree with that. To use the language of the identitarian wing of the democratic party, the anti barrel bombers need 'check their privilege.'
Is air war simply not allowed if you can't afford to buy gbus, jdams or the Russian and Chinese equivalents?

Because we certainly didn't have a problem dropping thousands of tons of dumb bombs onto Germany/Japan/Korea/Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia. We even used barrel bombs from helicopters in those later wars. Heck, even the moab is the same principle as a barrel bomb, just stick a bunch of heavy explosive in a canister and fling it out the door.

This comes up a lot in UN meetings, lots of indignation and the central idea that if your country isn't rich enough to buy the highest tech gear, any war you wage is evil and inhumane, even in self defense, especially in self defense. You should simply surrender.

Reading the comments is enough to make you want to ask them wether they'd rather be targeted by a laser guided bomb or by a bomb guided by the guy in the helicopter shoving it out at just the right time. I would pick the second. What isn't discussed in these meetings is how UN peacekeeping forces using HIND gunships indiscriminately rocket whatever the corrupt local commander calls a rebel gathering point, but I'll save that digression.

Especially rich were the sanctions placed on Syria that made it impossible for them, before Russia's intervention, to buy the kind of nice guided bombs that are okay to use (and if you're saudi, explicitly against crowds of civilians and their life giving infrastructure). But logic and critical thinking don't matter when it's all about narrative and framing things so you can destroy a country on behalf of maybe 50 people or so who'll profit after the death and suffering cools down.

War is hell. Syria is not a rich country, a good portion of the fighting age men have either left or joined the jihadi groups, the SAA/NDF/associated militias do what they can with what they have.

The total lack of chemical or biological weapons used against huge built up ahrar al sham and al qaeda forces during the battle of east aleppo make all the claims about the desperate Assad ring hollow.

I'm not sure what those of us in the fact based community can do other than write nice letters to our senators and communicate with our friends, make sure as many average americans know that we are supporting al qaeda and their friends, directly, (with video proof required of our friends tow missile attacks on resting soldiers of the Secular Syrian government required for the CIA guys who hand out the TOWs), with billions of dollars of materiél, training, intelligence, etc.

I've found useful showing what Al Jazeera Arabic has to say about the war in comparison with what Al Jazeera english has to say. I.e. (Assad regime barrel bombs his people, what a preventable tragedy) to (Kill all rafidi scum). The minorities and the urban Sunni of Syria are fighting for their very existence and they dont' have an easy out the way Christians in Lebanon did, they've also not allied with the country that wants to occupy and establish hegemony over their land. But I can't speak to that in depth.

Any peace will have to come with a federalized Syrian republic with Alawites, the urban Sunni, and the Kurds well represented, and those rural Sunni who supported a foreign destruction of their country are going to have to take the scraps they get, especially with the young Saudi crown prince trying to balance the books and other jihadi sponsors reliant on things being quiet, and not blowing back in their ugly shiny cities.

Once the open combat ends, Syria will need both fight a running guerilla war and be ready for Turkish encroachment in the north and Israeli encroachment in the south. The sooner ISIS is eliminated from Iraq and Iraq's PMUs can provide manpower, the better.

Watching combat videos, the non elite forces of the SAA simply fight like men who don't want to die, and I don't blame them, because there are a lot of bad officers who get their men killed by not being able to read a battlefield. There is the core of a strong aggressive citizen army, but it's surrounded by a lot of lightly trained neighborhood defense forces who simply run away when the enemy catches them off guard, and there seems to be a lack of secondary fighting positions to flee to. When 40 year olds are fighting as infantry, not because they have experienced and volunteered, as in novorussia, but because it's absolutely necessary, this kind of sloppiness is to be expected.

Iran and Russia continue to train and re-equip Syrian forces, and Syria seems to have designed a homemade suite of chains and screens that make anti tank missile hits, on t-72s, and perhaps even the thinly armored bmps into mobility kills, and they seem to be able to bring damaged vehicles back to service in short order. These are very good things, as I don't know that the US will be so eager to provide Javelin missiles to al qaeda.

But as we've seen in videos, commanders who fail to understand how to set up defensible positions and better defended rally points and then full defensible lines to fall back to are all too common. I'm sure the US/Saudi et al feed lots of real time intelligence about the quality of syrian army units to their proxies, and their proxies have their own drones, which are invaluable in urban combat, and we see a repeat. The undertrained men do their best to hold out, they're overwhelmed when an anti tank team takes out a large group of soldiers, they flee, and it takes a week or two to move better forces, coordinate airstrikes and artillery, and retake lost ground. The only upside is that when morale is good, it's really good, and the tactics the rebels have developed against checkpoint forces fail, the rebels don't really know what to do, we've seen this in the defense of some of the besieged bases and Shia towns. They can't win with their normal tactics so they revert to Curtis LeMay mode and indiscriminately bombard houses.

I fear for Syria, because the gulf monarchies and the CIA seem to have no problem if this war kills every Assyrian, Alawite, Druze, Yazidi, and non takfiri Sunni in Syria.

Russia knows how to win this sort of war. They did it in Chechnya the second time around, and it wasn't pretty. First time, Gorbachev got a ton of conscripts slaughtered, The CIA let Saudi Arabia turn the very intriguing chechen Sufism into a wahhabi ghoulish thing, and Putin and his generals won the next war by slitting throats and using self propelled AA guns to turn urban hideaways into swish cheese, and thermobaric bombs to liquidate concentrations of enemy fighters. After the demonstration of strength, they co opted the strong and reasonable Kadyrov, who was more a traditionalist and nationalist than a suicidal freak bent on genocide, to deal with the intractable Chechens. He and his son did so, brutally. The price paid was a de facto independent state within Russia which receives buckets of subsidies, but also provides rugged infantry ready to cut throats for Russia. Very Roman, turning the barbarians to your side with continued gifts as they supply rugged auxillary troops.
Syria seems to be addressing the grievances of its citizens with these reconciliations town by town, as a way of disempowering smaller rebel warlord, in effect, pitting them against the centrally controlled al qaeda and saudi proxies. The recent attack on the civilians in the buses was an expression of frustration by al qaeda at the fact that fighters were willing to make deals with the government, seeing it as legitimate organ to deal with if not having love for it.

I'm also reminded of Afghanistan after the Soviet army pulled out. The official communist government managed to stand (with some advisors and piles of weapons) for almost 20 years against well funded, well planned taliban offensives. It finally took a human wave of pashtun from pakistan with tons of tanks, ballistic missiles, and manpads to take the capitol. If not for the fall of the USSR, I think they could have held out even longer.


Sorry for the rambling and any factual inaccuracies, this is the account of the war as I've read it.

To return to my original point, it's going to take an improvement in the quality of SAA forces, perhaps an entry of the PMU, a large increase in effectiveness of the use of artillery, to reduce Idlib from Chechnya 2.0 to a government controlled province. The fractal nature of the opposition is helpful in this case. I would be on the look out for dirty tricks, like the original attempt at giving ISIS a safe corridor to exit Mosul and enter Syria, that was thankfully shut down by PMU and the Iraqi air force.

There are enough pragmatic daesh members who know that Syrian Daeshis could just shave their beards, walk away, and continue guerilla actions against the Syrian government, and there's reason to believe that the CIA would be happy with that outcome. The elite Chechens might stay and inflict casualties and attempt to bleed the kurds, whose force is very small. Not to mention that the city is full of more tunnels and booby traps than an indiana jones movie.

I don't like approve of the attempt to create a self licking ice cream cone of a sunnistan, or an Israel 2.0 in Greater Kurdistan, (Israel 2.0 in that it's liable to be attacked by all of its neighbors at the same time, out of irredentist fury). but the YPG is smart enough not to lose half of their best fighters in hopeless urban warfare. It's possible that they'll attempt the same sort of siege tactics that our friend Kenneth Roth found so evil when undertaken by the SAA.

Large columns of ISIS fighters can easily be destroyed by air, but if Iraq upsets the CIA in the meantime, I can assume they would find safe passage back to Iraq, one way or another.

Apologies for the endless post. I would like to see these wars ended and the sovereignty of Syria and Iraq restored.

Croesus

"Well, face it: Whatever Rudolf 'demonstrated', apparently Zyklon B gas WAS used in the third Reich in a 'systematic, industrialized scheme'. After all, in late 1944 Mr. Himmler ordered gassing operations TO CEASE across the Reich.

That means there WERE gassing operations going on, beyond delousing."

On what evidence do you base the claim that "Himmler ordered gassing operations to CEASE?"


Marko

optimax ,

Yes,I worded that very poorly. I only meant that it was a shame that he initially misinterpreted the wind direction by 180 degrees, which must be a bit embarrassing for him. I don't expect it will detract much , if anything , from the thrust of his work.

Adam Larson

Multiple lines of evidence point to something that tests for sarin (in spots anyway) and otherwise might, has a yellow color, a strange, foul smell like rotting food perhaps, that stings the eyes and damages the lungs, causing pulmonary edema in victims studied in Turkey. This is quite like the substance used and found after the Ghouta attack and the Khan al-Assal attack, at least. Both have been blamed on "Assad," using sarin of a kind he, therefore, has used. Best evidence implicates terrorists for both.

And here are officials seeming to confirm that it's the match they said they were/should have been looking for, and making it sound like it's a match via that dubious "use."

Which of course it might, per what Marko notes way above. If, y'know, there were any rational motive, or actual proof, or something to say it was or likely was the government.

Further, the phrase "or a sarin-like substance" might even suggest they didn't use the latest fluoride ion regeneration test (IIRC) that would prove it was sarin (as Pmr9 brings up at ACLOS). IF SO, that could be because it wasn't sarin when they did use that test, so they re-tested it to get the 'maybe' result.

But... I would suspect terrorists used the same kind of crude sarin they did before. Unless they ran out...

LeaNder

I've got a lot of questions about the official Holocaust narrative.

Hindenburg, can you give me your list of basic questions?

Jan Czekajewski

Sarin gas not Sarin is secondary in this pursuit of truth. Question should be: Qui Bono? or Who Profits? Assad had no interest in using any chemical weapons. Putin probably told him: "Do not even try. They are waiting for you t use it". His enemies were waiting for an excuse to get rid of him. It is obvious to me that choice of Sarin gas was as an excuse to send a few missiles to bomb remote airfield. I surprised that Tomahawk missiles were not send to Damascus to kill Assad. Why such waist of expensive weapon? Politicians and Generals play with dangerous toys which may result in very large conflict.

Generalfeldmarschall von Hindenburg

What was really going on at Auschwitz, for one. Were they really making buna? Were they generating power for a nuclear weapons programme? Would the US or Soviet authorities in the postwar era tell us the truth of the matter? Our elites are demonstrably obsessed with secrecy, so I don't see any reason to believe much of anything from the canon.

I'm always one to question everything, especially when multiple actors on the political scene have competing agendas behind maintaining something that's extreme (they wanted to kill all Jews and Gypsies) in conception but logistically tricky in execution. I don't like raising these questions online because there's no point in inflaming people I probably agree with 90% on just about everything else.
I've seen many people question various confessions by various Nazi regime police commanders, civil authorities and the like. Certainly the USSR and the US/UK had deeper agendas than they admitted at the time.
I'm prepared likewise to question the extent of alleged crimes of the Stalin regime. The succession in the USSR was handled in such a way that Stalin had to be discredited. A lot like Thutmose III discredited his mother. For reasons both good and bad. 3500 years later, people can look at it dispassionately, but maybe in those days it was not a topic lightly raised.

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