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04 April 2017

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Babak Makkinejad

She is silencing McCain and Co.; that is her utility.

Trump's government will issue all the right condemnations but will do nothing.

Macomb county in Michigan did not elect him to bomb Syria or anywhere else.

Annem

Some of the media reports did refer to chlorine gas, not sarin.

Use of gas in a situation like this would be an act of desperation. That describes neither the SAA nor the Russians. As usual, none of the Western media identified the area as being held by "jihadis."

Babak Makkinejad

There was also this:

A deal had been negotiated recently in Qatar between representatives of Iran and the Syrian Rebels for the evacuation of two cities Foa'a and Kfrya -فوعه و کفریا - the implementation of which is now doubtful.

I think the best thing that Iran and Russia can do is to propose the creation of an independent fact-finding mission - say under the CWBT - and let the Fortress West and Gulfies oppose it.

I also think the leaders of Saudi Arabia and Turkey do not comprehend that US intervention in Syria will lead - without a doubt - to a much larger war in the aftermath of which will emerge a smaller Turkey and a smaller Saudi Arabia and a smaller Iraq and a smaller Syria, together with a Republic of Kurdistan.

Arabs beware.

Mikey

CNN quotes the CDC (on Sarin) here:

"In liquid form, symptoms are likely to appear a few minutes to a few hours after exposure, but the effect is almost instantaneous when it's an odorless gas. Then, victims can experience symptoms within seconds.
Symptoms of low to moderate exposure include a watery nose, blurred vision, tightness in the chest, nausea, drowsiness and headaches.
The toxic effects of nerve agents are caused by the inhibition of an enzyme the CDC calls an "off switch" for glands and muscles. Without it, the glands and muscles continue to operate, eventually causing victims to tire to the point that they're unable to keep breathing.
Exposure to large doses can lead to loss of consciousness, convulsions, paralysis and respiratory failure. Victims can die within 10 minutes.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/05/middleeast/syria-sarin-chemical-weapons-explainer/

In your opinion, is CNN or the CDC downplaying the lethality of Sarin in cases of low to moderate exposure?
Please don't be offended, just trying to find out the facts.

Balint Somkuti, PhD

Yes. Especially with USrael set on creating a Kurdistan.

Thomas

"Is this a playbook scene that has been run before?"

Yes, it will continue to do so until someone with influence and courage calls BS to stop it.

elaine

Dubhaltach, I'd be very interested in knowing more about your recent trip to Syria. Please elaborate.

Jan Czekajewski

More importantly, Assad had no incentive for such an assault.

The probability of Syrian forces deliberately conducting such an attack are almost zero, in my estimation.

This is my opinion as well

Eric Newhill

Babak,
Agree. Trump has been forced to condemn Syria and Russia in this matter because he wouldn't dare to question the situation given all the McCarthyism and allegations of collusion with the red menace flying around these days. Anything short of condemnation would be played up as evidence of 1. collusion with demonic baby killer Putin and 2. That Trump is also a heartless supporter of demonic baby killers (intensify the investigations!)

The Borg has put Trump in check. Well played, Borg.

Babak Makkinejad

That war to come would not end for a while, likely will escalate into a shooting war between the United States and Russia and Iran as well. It will be decades before the dust settles.

Osama Bin Ladin attacked Harper's Ferry, and we have been through Bloody Kansas and the War Between the States is just around the corner.

Puritans won the US Civil War, let us see if they will win this one.

Old Microbiologist

Nerve agents are dose dependent and extremely difficult to treat. In reality only light doses are treatable at all. Those of us who served in the military always carried atropine and 2PAM Chloride auto syringes for self and/or buddy treatment. However it was later determined 2PAMCl didn't work at all and atropine only works for very light doses. The only real protection is PPE. We never trained with live agents (other than tear gas) but the Soviets did use nerve agent for their chemical corps soldiers. I believe they also now only use stimulants. Because nerve agents are normally dispersed as a liquid it stays confined and is absorbed quickly. However, it has high volatility and outgasses easily causing delayed exposures. A lot has to do with environmental factors such as night/day, temperature, humidity, and prevailing winds.

If this incident happened at all, then it most likely was chlorine gas released from canisters. That is a true gas and behaves accordingly. It is heavier than air so settles on the ground. In a quarry this is ideal. Death would be from suffocation though so no foaming of the mouth hence why I believe the entire thing is a false flag.

trinlae

Welcome back and glad youre safe. Thanks for sharing!

Ghostship

Serge
This was the second image I saw of the attack. It's the site of probably all the action that occurred in the video you linked to:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/04/syria-chemical-attack-idlib-province#img-1
It looks like a quarry to me, not a large commercial one but a small local one that meets local needs.
These appear to be two images taken in the opposite direction towards what seems to be the White Helmet structures:
https://017qndpynh-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/17758314_1889429741270586_450301894920766305_o-1.jpg
https://017qndpynh-flywheel.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/bombed-location-after.jpg

Ghostship

"frantic beeping in the background"
Someone could have added a background soundtrack during editing. This is not an amateur video, although the production it's of seems very amateurish to me.
This is a White Helmet location. The White Helmets are supposed to be trained civil defence workers. Why is the drop off area for the White Helmet location and hospital so disorganized with bodies and people lying all over the place blocking access to the White Helmet location and hospital? If the White Helmets really were trained, I'd expect to see the bodies and people lying in an orderly manner and someone directing things and someone (a nurse or doctor) running triage.

A.Pols

What the lack of critical thinking about this means to me is that certain elements in this country "want" to be fooled. All the "White Helmet" videos are the same with the various "rescuers" milling around in an uncoordinated fashion, all yelling in the same way. Nobody actually seems to look hurt, the "treatments" are laughable in relation to what would be going on in the event of a real nerve agent attack, they seem to grab the same child and run towards the camera, always towards the camera. These videos belong on Saturday Night Live.
Is "Serge" a troll, or am I off base?
Anyhow, these reports of chemical attack massacres always seem to materialize in a formulaic manner in a predictable way at certain times of stress for the Jihadis.
We, in this country, need to get over this and stop being so willfully gullible.

Keith Harbaugh

I get that effect with the blockquote HTML command.
Viz:

This is inside a blockquote tag.

To get line breaks inside a blockquote, use the br command.

Yeah, Right

I take it as a given that if this was a false flag operation then the US intelligence community would be able to detect the fakery. Or - at the very least - to conclude that they can't discount that this was faked.

Nobody thinks the US intelligence agencies are so incompetent that they can't detect a fraud perpetrated on this scale, correct?

Surely if this was a false-flag then the US intelligence community would detect the fakery, and would then be obligated to bring their conclusion to the attention of the POTUS.

After all, that's why Obama had to walk back his "red line" i.e. he was told that he had been played for a sucker, and he just had to Suck It Up.

Or is all that too naive? Is it possible for the US military to conclude that this was a false-flag and then, you know, keep that to themselves?

I would have thought that the answer was "no", but then again I'm looking in from the outside. What do the insiders think?

Eric Newhill

All,
I am thinking that there is hope here.

The Russians can use their super hacking abilities to cause Trump's Google searches to come to this site.

Chris Chuba

What Keith said.

For others who want to experiment with html formatting ...
https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_strike.asp

I find myself using boldface, text in between will be bold <b>bold </b>
All html tags have the same rule of enclosure.

<blockquote>

block quotation
</blockquote>

On a more serious not it looks like Al Qaeda scored a real victory with their False Flag. Now Trump has backed himself into a corner and declared that Assad has crossed his red lines ... http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/trump-says-he-now-has-responsibility-start-wwiii-syria/ri19454

The Russians really blundered. They should have had a rapid reaction force to secure any area subject to a chemical weapons attack to prevent forensic corruption. Now they might get into a war. They knew this was a possibility, there was buzz about this last year on Southfront and Al Masdar.

I can hear Netanyahu whispering to Trump, 'we bomb Syria all of the time, it's no big deal, you should do it'.

Yeah, Right

Eric, Trump has no hesitation in tweeting statements without producing the evidence to back them up i.e. his tweets are presented as self-evident-facts.

So he can respond to being "in check" with a single tweet: "I've just been told that this atrocity was faked by ISIS".

And like all his other tweets he can respond to the subsequent howls of outrage by saying "I'll have more to say on this later, you just wait and see".

After all, that has worked for him every other time.....

turcopolier

Yeah, right

If he think this was dome by IS in Idlib then he is invincibly ignorant. pl

repiblic

The SAA has discovered Potassium Permangenate (for chlorine gas) and Aluminum Phosphide [Detia GAS-EX-B] (releases phosphine) in rebel held areas. Phosphine can apparently have a garlic / rotten fish smell caused by incidental byproducts / incomplete reaction.

If B1 were true, it is possible that a stockpile of this was hit.

republic

DH

The strong statements by Trump and Tillerson before a proper investigation could indicate it's all kabuki, and they will allow themselves to be talked down.

Yeah, Right

Colonel, it isn't a matter of "ignorance", but of "politics".

If Trump believes he is being deliberately boxed in then he can escape from that box at any time by tweeting "I've been told that ISIS did this".

It is his get-out-of-goal card, and if he plays it then he is under no obligation to produce any evidence, just as he was under no obligation to produce evidence that "Obama bugged my phones!" or that "Rice broke the law!" or that "Hillary is crooked!".

Those are all tweets, they are not depositions in a court of law.


turcopolier

Yeah, Right

I think ignorance is the right thought. Surely Trump and company can see that an expedition into Syria would result in a yet another swamp from which he would not be able to extricate himself. This would lead to massive disillusion among his core supporters. pl

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