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08 March 2017


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Eric Newhill

Thanks, but that really didn't answer my question.

In the insurance industry we deal with information, with personal identifiers, that is considered, by law in many cases, to be fairly sensitive. Actually, you'd be surprised what we know about people beyond their healthcare diagnoses, procedures, doctors, etc. We get "big data" files from vendors (purveyors of personal info) that tell us many things, like what people buy with their credit cards, the magazines they subscribe to.....al sorts of interesting details.

As the information becomes more sensitive fewer employees have access it - that or it is masked for those at lower levels. However, there are translation tables for the masked data. A meaningless series of alpha numeric characters becomes a real person if you have permission to join to tables.

So I am thinking that someone in these agencies has the ability to translate (US PERSON 1) or (US COMPANY 2) seen in reports into real people and companies. Yes? meaning that someone who has been collaterally spied upon now has a file and that some people in the agencies know exactly who that file pertains to and what is in it.



A very good point. Just buy something on Amazon or even do a google search and see what ads one is bombarded with. Then there is the OPM hack (for example). Just what happened to all that data and who has it?

Babak Makkinejad

Iranian legends are filled with references to counselors to the king who first sought immunity from beheading before communicating the bad news to the king.


Colonel, I hope someone he trust.


Recall that DNI James Clapper flagrantly lied to Congress when asked directly whether NSA was collecting mass data on American citizens in the US. Now with Vault 7 data, it is once again clear that all the presumed post-Snowden terminations of these illegal spy programs were just more lies. Col. Lang's noting of the use of other "Five Eyes" spy agencies, specifically GCHQ, to spy on Americans who were "foreign targets" of British collection is a pretty standard means of violating the "spirit" of the so-called Constitutional protections. In the 1970s, revelations of illegal CIA domestic activities led to widely publicized Church and Pike committee probes of FBI and CIA illegal activities. It led to the laws that for the first time allowed Congressional oversight, as opposed to "old boy" informal briefings by CIA Directors to select Congressional leaders. Has Congress been so emasculated that such a probe today is out of the question? Of course, the NSA was never seriously probed by Congress, to the best of my knowledge, and it is the only intelligence agency that was not a creation of Congress but a creation of an Executive Order.

Babak Makkinejad

Trump has indicated that he covets the oil of Iraq. He has now lost Iraqis - they will never trust any actions by his administration.


For those that want a better understanding, see:



Colonel in your opinion was GWB lied to, about Iraqi WMD just like we were lied to. If so the consequences deserve big punishment.



During the US Civil War (WBS) Union Army generals were thrown out and/or imprisoned for what the US Congress chose to call treachery, etc. You seem to want to return to that kind of thing. Who do you have in mind to be tried before some sort of kangaroo court? pl

Peter Reichard

Given the revelations of Tice, Binney, Klein and others and the capacity of the NSA's Utah facility that consumes 1.2 million gallons of water a day just to cool the computers it is likely that they copy and store every phone conversation, e-mail and text message in the USA. The entire communication system is subject to one gigantic wire tap and the government is spying on everybody all the time. Any FISA search warrant just retroactively authorizes what is already going on so it can legally be used in a prosecution.

The Twisted Genius

Eric Newhill,

IC files are purged at least annually for US person data. This was documented by signed certification by each unit commander/OIC to the General Counsel. Files of someone collaterally spied upon would not exist. I have no idea how LE handles this data. For the raw, unprocessed SIGINT data, I'm not sure what is done. My guess is that it exists somewhere in those massive data centers to be processed some day by more powerful AI tools.


Plenty of Sturm und Drang but I have yet to see anything very surprising in the Wikileaks dump. The CIA was rigging photocopiers in the 1960's. You'd have to be a pretty stupid terrorist to disregard electronic surveillance. The prerequisites for 9/11 were c. $500,000, a few novice pilots willing to die for the cause, and umpteen thugs; no need for cellphones or smart TVs. While it's of dubious value for combating terrorism, all that signal data would be very useful for making money.


Colonel, I don't know, I just think there are not serious consequences, punishment for deliberately lying, miss informing, the ultimate in charge of national security which is the C in C. IMO if there were serious punishments and persuasion to punish, the neocons/yellow bellies would have thinked twice to push their agenda with innuendos, deception and lies. we all know what happened to this nation and Iraq after Iraqi mishap, that was due to a lie that C in C knowingly or unknowingly believed to be a slam dunk, and the liar was awarded presidential medal of freedom. Sorry to drag this far, I will stop.



Thank you for informing me.

So it looks like to me that if someone in high position wants to use or better say misuse the armed forces for getting SIGINT for political purposes such an effort would end up at the NSA anyway? If so, than the way of misusing the armed forces for that seems quite closed.



Yes. The Service Cryptologic Agencies and NSA are functionally the same thing. pl



Brennan built a wholly owned duplicative analog to NSA. Why did he do this? pl


Wikileaks is most likely just a publisher. So "targetting" might not be the right word.

It probably doesn't only target the US, in that it would accept leaks from anywhere, but the risks of leaking in say China or Russia or Iran would possibly be serious not only for the leaker, but also the leaker's family and that family's future. In the United States, the consequences for leaking are surely dealt with solely within the purview of the law. In other countries that is not so.

Maybe I'll grant you that it is a bit strange that there are not more leaks out of South Korea, say, or Britain: countries where the rule of law is well established. For instance, the info wikileaks has on South Korea are all really leaks from the United States on the topic of South Korea, and not leaks endogenous to Korea.


Great piece by Jonathan Turley...

Discredited Obama-era insiders back from the dead to slam Trump http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/323007-discredited-obama-era-insiders-back-from-the-dead-to
In the midst of the raging controversies over secret surveillance and new healthcare plans, there were some curious and unsettling sightings in the coverage.  Individuals once thought to have passed from political existence reappeared to hold forth on the very subjects of their demise.
In ancient times such figures were called druagr or, in Old Norse, revenant.  The two most recent revenants were James Clapper and Jonathan Gruber.  They are ample proof that no one really dies in Washington; their scandals just fade away.

James Clapper is being widely quoted as proof that President Donald Trump was lying in saying that there was surveillance of Trump Tower carried out by President Barack Obama.  Clapper went public to say categorically that no such surveillance operations occurred. That ended the issue for many in the media.  After all, as the former Director of National Intelligence, Clapper would know right?

Of course, all of the members of Congress and media widely quoting Clapper as the final word on the issue are ignoring that, in the Obama administration, some felt that Clapper should have been indicted for perjury in denying the existence of the most massive surveillance program in the history of the country.

The section on revenant Jonathan Gruber, the so-called architect of Obamacare is worth reading too.


You may be right, but there has to be more to this. It certainly makes Wikileak very partisan and at some point it will damage their credibility. As of now, they appear to be aligned with Russia.




Cornyn's background is law.

And prior to running for Congress, Burr worked for 17 years as a sales manager for a distributor of lawn equipment.



I'm not over the warrant not granted

August 22-28, 2001: Phoenix Memo Withheld from FISA Attorneys in Moussaoui

The FBI’s Minneapolis field office drafts an application for a FISA warrant to search Zacarias Moussaoui’s belongings and sends it to the Radical Fundamentalist Unit (RFU) at FBI headquarters. From there, the application is sent to four attorneys at the FBI’s national security law unit (NSLU), as it needs to be legally cleared by them before being submitted to the FISA court. All four attorneys are doubtful that the application contains enough evidence to secure a warrant. Although they are aware that Moussaoui is connected to Chechen rebels, they do not believe the FISA court will consider the Chechen rebels to be a foreign power. Moreover, they do not think the connection between the Chechens and Osama bin Laden is strong enough to make Moussaoui an agent of al-Qaeda. However, the attorneys are not given the relevant documentation. For example, they are not informed that the FBI was warned in April that the Chechen rebel leader and bin Laden were planning an attack against the US (see Before April 13, 2001). Nor are they provided with a copy of the Phoenix memo, in which Arizona FBI agent Ken Williams correctly theorized that bin Laden was sending agents to the US to train in flight schools (see July 10, 2001). Attorney Sherry Sabol will later say that she asked RFU agents Mike Maltbie and Rita Flack whether there was any evidence of people being sent to the US for flight training. Flack, who read the Phoenix memo five days before (see August 22, 2001), said no. Maltbie will later say he does not recall this, and Flack will deny it


Eic Newhill

Just saw your comment, immediately above, above personal info for sale by private business. That's what I refer to down thread where you and I discusses personal identifiers. Like I said, you might be surprised what companies know about you. I have access to all sorts of information well beyond your healthcare and demographics. There is a team that works with that data for various purposes and I don't think it is adding much value at this time, but we have it. I have spoken with purveyors of the data and they are very excited about what they will be able to supply in the future. Smart phones figure heavily in the data capture as do credit cards. Plus the personal identifiers associated with both a universal; meaning they are easily tied to the healthcare data, to each other and to financial data. With all of that very robust profiles of individuals can be constructed. Ostensibly, this is for highly targeted marketing and, in insurance, highly refined pricing of policies.

Given that the company I work for involves tens of millions of covered lives, it is very conceivable that someday some employee with the right skills and access will take such a profile of someone in or running for office and use it against that person. We try to protect against such an event in various ways, but, well you know how it goes. It's a scary new world out there in terms of lack of privacy with all the info gathered and bought and sold.

William R. Cumming

Respectfully disagree!

William R. Cumming

Based on all info since 9/11 I believe the FBI legal ruling erroreous.

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