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08 March 2017

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turcopolier

kooshy

The word "lie" is being used far too loosely. To make a mistake and be in error in analysis no matter to whom the result is briefed is not a "lie." It happens and is merely proof that to err is human. An actual deliberate lie to the chief executive is unheard of. If such a think happened and was discovered the result would be dismissal from the government. pl

trinlae

This was also my sense of it.

Not only might DT had been given a Vault 7 heads up, a sneak preview may have come to him and T May both around October-Nov 2016 c.o Ecuador Embassy, London.

Not only CIA has professional counterpart colleague peers among 5 eyes but FBI-Interpol peer networks may be older and more robust.

will2.7182

it seems that the USAF got out of the three letter IC nomenclature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-Fifth_Air_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community#Members

Bandolero

Pat

Regarding your five point list of ways of interception I wonder whether the list is complete.

For example, as a layman I find it logical that any military in the world engages in interception activity. So I guess, interception capabilities are just there, and even cyber warfare units, and in the US military as much as in any military of the world, and likely more, since the US military has the largest budget in the world.

So, I don't know what legal procedures apply and what happens when the US military - accidentally or not - catches some US domestic data, or what happens when a foreign military shares with the US military US domestic data military to military. But I could hardly imagine that there are no domestic "interception issues" and legal doubts or questions in the military's cyber warfare at all.

Eric Newhill

SIGINT experts,
What happens when you are authorized, by whatever formalities, to go after party A and party A happens to communicate by means susceptible to your intercept methodologies to party B, who you have not been authorized to collect on? Maybe you even kind of guessed that A communicates with B and maybe you actually are more interested in B, but couldn't supply the authorities with ample justification to get through the formalities regarding B.

Does party B's data get summarily discarded with everyone closing their eyes immediately and erasing their brief memories of it?

Pundita

Washington (CNN - 5:04 PM EST 3/8) Sen. Lindsey Graham said Wednesday he is ready to subpoena the intelligence agencies for evidence that would prove President Donald Trump's claims that he was wiretapped last year by then-President Barack Obama.

Asked by CNN if he would subpoena for any evidence, the South Carolina Republican said, "Yes."
[...]
Graham and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, a Rhode Island Democrat, sent a letter to FBI Director James Comey and the acting deputy attorney general Wednesday, requesting any information regarding Trump's claims.

"We request that the Department of Justice provide us copies of any warrant applications and court orders — redacted as necessary to protect intelligence sources and methods that may be compromised by disclosure, and to protect any ongoing investigations — related to wiretaps of President Trump, the Trump Campaign, or Trump Tower," Graham and Whitehouse wrote.
[...]
Lots more in the report
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/08/politics/graham-wiretap-russia-subpoena/

BraveNewWorld

We know from the Snowden docs that every thing that the NSA is doing CSIS & CSAC are doing as well as are the other 5eyes members. All that raw intel that is collected is also handed over to Israel.

Cee

BillWade,

The techies may be on our sides. They are trying to step up security

The Twisted Genius

Lefty,

Here's another thing for us all to worry about. All this personal information has been monetized by private enterprise. It is all for sale and resale. My good friend who was and still is in the thick of the digital information revolution at NSA and CIA, told me the IC pales in comparison to what big business collects on all of us and exploits with ruthless abandon.

BraveNewWorld

If any one is interested the FISA stats can be found here. They aren't really in the business of rejecting wire tap applications.

https://www.epic.org/privacy/surveillance/fisa/stats/

turcopolier

Bandolero

NSA is part of DoD and coordinates all SIGINT activities of the separate armed forces. The SIGINT people in the armed forces are operationally controlled by NSA in peacetime and are actively employed in the national effort by NSA and are part of NSA's effort. When committed to combat support they work for the local commander in coordination with NSA. pl

The Twisted Genius

Eric Newhill,

NSA reports refer to US persons and US entities as (US PERSON 1) or (US COMPANY 2) in their reports. The information is there, but the specific identities are not. I've written HUMINT reports for the Army and DIA in the same manner.

If in the course of collection you happen upon information of a crime (international or US), whether it committed by a US person or not, you must refer this information to your legal counsel and the FBI.

kooshy

Thank You sir, I meant deliberately to miss inform, or cover up a mistake. IMO in that case (deliberate) the punishment needs to be more than just dismissal.

turcopolier

kooshy

It would be a rare thing to be able to prove intent to deceive. This not an American tradition. What would be the punishment if proven? Amputation? pl

Babak Makkinejad

Lying is cheap; no physical punishment whatsoever.

Old Microbiologist

I think there are plenty of instances of lying by omission. In other words someone new to the system like Trump et. al. might not know the right questions to ask and the IC might not be all that willing to be forthcoming on clandestine activities, particularly when they are clearly illegal. The type of lying is what Clapper faced when given a choice of revealing something classified and in conflict with American laws (but approved by Obama) or telling a lesser lie. Only after he was caught out did he admit his lying. Of course, as usual with Obama, no punishment was applied. It seems to me the IC is being given a "pass" most of the time and that this has created an environment where flaunting the laws is commonplace. The FISA court is a travesty and in the period between 2009 and today we know of only 2 instances out of 10,547 requests that were rejected. So, this is merely a rubber stamp court. The fact that they rejected the first Trump request was because whoever wrote the affidavit mentioned Trump by name as the target. We can assume the next version was tailored to only be targeting non-US citizens communicating with the Trump team. I suppose all of this will come out eventually and the truth revealed.

Cee

Col. Lang,

On intended to decieve

The CIA’s UMBRAGE group, according to the press release of a drop that the intelligence community admits is wholly authentic, “collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation,” which could be used to “misdirect attribution by leaving behind the ‘fingerprints' of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.”

Lars

It appears that Wikileaks exclusively targets the US. There has to be a reason for that. Anyone know the answer?

kooshy

Good morning Colonel, how about jail, for deliberately deceiving the C of C, IMO it's worst than stealing.

turcopolier

kooshy

I suppose you would have to prove conspiracy. pl

turcopolier

Lars

We are the country that most matters in terms of our actions and their effect on all. pl

turcopolier

OMB

IMO you have to be very careful that you do not make it impossible for analysts at the strategic level especially to give their opinion as to what the information means. After 9/11 I repeatedly ran into people in the policy side of government who simply derided and rejected the notion that long serving analysts with great depth of knowledge of a subject had opinions concerning that subject that had any value. The policy people who, for example, wanted to invade and occupy Iraq insisted that the long term students of Iraqi affairs were simply wrong in telling them that the highly anti-colonial and xenophobic Iraqis of various kinds would resist occupation endlessly. Hence the nonsense about being greeted as liberators on a long term basis. IMO to adopt Kooshy's policy of punishing analysts and briefers for "getting it wrong" would reduce people like Trump who are essentially clueless about esoteric subjects to relying on whatever it is that some talking head like Jack Keane says on the tube. pl

kooshy

Thank you Colonel, I asked this question, because IMO at least one US intelligence agency which is supposedly under the command of C in C and is in charge of daily briefing of the president, is actively trying or helping to unseat him, if true, someone(s) there in that agency is/are deliberately deceiving the president, again if true, who knows if they are giving him their best estimates/ analysis.

turcopolier

jackrabbit

I don't see how Trumpworld could have focused on GCHQ as their hidden opponent without being told so from within the conspiracy. My candidate for the "rat" would be Admiral Rogers at NSA. Just after his meeting with Trump in NYC Clapper called for him to be fired. pl

turcopolier

kooshy

IMO the idea that the Daily Briefing team is deliberately deceiving so fanciful as to be just about impossible. On the other hand IMO Trump should have a small panel of greybeards to tell him if the Daily Brief is incorrect. I volunteer. pl

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