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12 March 2017

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Edward Amame

Fred

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but the link refers to those on the right trying to shut down ideas they don't like on campus. Both sides are doing it.

kao_hsien_chih

A number of people have been pointing out that how revealing the protests are as illustration of the problems Murray pointed to in his book, which I think is one of the most valuable and important contribution to understanding how the world works today.

The Middlebury students and faculty, the epitome of the "cognitive elite" that Murray described, don't want to recognize that some people can't afford cake, and that having someone point that out is an affront.

So much for intellectual curiosity.

kao_hsien_chih

One thing people should remember is that Murray was not at Middlebury to talk about Bell Curve, but Coming Apart--an entirely different book. Bell Curve's methodology and data can be debated, and has been debated extensively, but, that's not of (much) relevance here, and the argument in Coming Apart suggests has Murray's thoughts on society has become much more subtle, at any rate, perhaps towards taking the idea of "intelligence" as socially defined, or at least, not moral justification for hoarding power, compared to his critics. (If anything, much more rampant justification of the crass "(allegedly) smart people shall rule" type arguments come from "cognitive elites" of Silicon Valley and NYC.)

Edward Amame

Eric Newhill,

I agree with your last paragraph.

Regarding the rest. Murray's been demonized, if that's the right word, for providing a platform for post-modern racists, of providing a source of data to support many of their beliefs. Much of the data referenced in the Bell Curve was attributed to J. Phillippe Rushton and Arthur Jensen, who were funded by the Pioneer Fund.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Fund

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2005/10/moral_courage.html

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/049.html


turcopolier

EA

Did you ever read "Time on the Cross?" pl

Fred

Edward,

"both sides are doing it". That is not true. Do you have some actual evidence besides Daniel Pipes' actions against Juan Cole from over a decade ago during the run up to that war Hilary voted for?

Tyler

Steve,

Tbh. I laughed pretty hard but my point still stands.

Tyler

Bob,

Cultural Marxism as a mystery cult and everyone getting a trophy.

Fred

Edward,

Senator Moynihan was discredited and demonized too. That didn't stop things from following the course he projected though.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Negro_Family:_The_Case_For_National_Action

Eric Newhill

Edward,
Did you actually read "the Bell Curve" - some of the things the high priests of liberalism say about it aren't true, or only so to minor extent, at least as I read the book, keeping a close eye on the science in it.

What concerns me more is this notion that if research has been contributed to by an organization that, anywhere in its past, might have had some ugly ideology associated with it, then everything that follows is automatically discredited. What about the Ford Foundation? Does it not do good works despite henry having held some racist views? An aside - oddly socialism and communism, despite much real world ugliness, is an ideological background that appears to be acceptable to the priestly caste that renders judgment on what is good and what is bad.

Apparently there are some links between Carnegie Institute and members and beneficiaries of the Pioneer Fund you refer to. Should we now burn anything connected to Carnegie too? You see where this little game leads to - witch hunts, purges and a closed minded limitation on what is acceptable to be read to only publications by authors who are themselves deemed "pure" as well as their families and lineages and connections.

This is the same moral superiority game the left plays with American society as a whole. They say it's corrupt because of the original sins of slavery, Indians, etc.

Bob Blake

I have never read the book though just now I bought the Kindle version. Not familiar with cultural Marxism. In fairness I must confess to a life long aversion to short phrases such as "cultural Marxism" or even something as benign as "democratic institutions." Much is obscured by phrases where those in attendance nod their heads sagely conveying nothing but vacuous agreement.

Timothy Hagios

As an accredited armchair psychologist, I believe that snowflakedom is fundamentally a psychological response to unrealistic expectations and overemphasis on material success.

The kids grow up being told that they can be anything they want, so long as they put their mind to it. Thus their self-worth is dependent on material success. Eventually they realize that their achievements will never make them as successful, famous, or important as they grew up expecting. This is where victimhood kicks in: by labeling themselves as victims, they create an escape clause that allows them to maintain their self-worth while not attaining the expected level of success.

The logic is this: for a normal person, there is nothing spectacular about walking a mile down the road. But to walk a mile while carrying heavy baggage under enemy fire is an achievement indeed. There is normally nothing spectacular about graduating from school, but to graduate after enduring severe trauma is more impressive. Victimhood and disadvantage create a heavy burden that makes mediocre achievements more impressive. Accordingly, they can be used to "boost" the value of one's achievements.

For this reason, wherever real victimhood not available in sufficient quantity, it is necessary to create it. There are now whole academic disciplines devoted to defining the planet-sized burdens that the snow-Atlases are courageously holding up: the patriarchy, white privilege, ableism, etc. Individuals such as Murray are thus highly dangerous, because by arguing that the would-be victims are are not as oppressed as they imagine, they threaten the value of the victims' achievements and accordingly their self-worth.

You will notice that such incidents appear concentrated mainly at the more prestigious universities--Yale, Berkeley, Middlebury, etc. I would not expect them so much at a community college. It stands to reason that this is because the students are the more prestigious colleges are the most self-conscious about the value of their achievements. Also to the credit of this theory is the fact that it seems to have jumped into high-gear after the 2008 crisis, which dashed quite a lot of expectations.

turcopolier

Bob Blake

I don't think I have ever written anything about "Cultural Marxism." Do you have a citation? Don't attribute to me things I have not said. TotC is an economic analysis of American slavery as an institution. pl

Laura

Bob Blake, I spent 25 years of my life working (administratively) at a small liberal arts non-denominational Christian college. The snowflakes there arrived fully formed! Even though the level of seriously "different" debate and menu of speakers was lean and mild, the students' first response was usually averse. Fortunately, after four years of rigorous classroom pushback, they left much tougher than they arrived.

The college, as a whole, however, still supported the snowflakes over the "cacti." The "cacti", as I came to think of them, often ended up in the chair in my office where they could vent without any pushback to how "Christian" they might be.

I graduated from a UC and I NEVER felt as circumscribed as I did at that small college--I also came of age in the late 60's and am very glad that I did. My experience being "used" by leftist speakers and the politicians who railed against them made me completely resistant to D T's diatribes. I do NOT like being used and recognize it in a nanosecond because there is nothing worse than being in a crowd of protestors when the fringe idiots behind you start burning police cars. It isn't snowflake to stand against demagogues but it is a lesson best learned by each generation.

Edward Amame

Fred,

This link's pretty up to date. Tactics are slightly different than the left's but the intent's the same.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/11/turning-point-usa-launches-professor-watchlist.html

Larry Kart

I was an undergrad at the U. of Chicago in the 1960s, an English major. A politically/socially turbulent era at times, but I don't recall anything like this Middlebury mess. For one thing, the underlying (if you will, pity-party) conceptual framework that seems to be at work here was not present in the thinking either of students or the administration back then. Yes, there were vigorous anti-war protests at the U. of C in the late '60s in which a school administratiin building were occupied (or if you prefer, "occupied"), but the students who did so were expelled. One could argue as to whether that response was too harsh or not, but there was a certain cleanness and seriousness to it -- it was as though the school was saying, in effect, "We take your protest seriously, and this is our serious response. Shutting down this school is not an option. Get on with your lives elsewhere."

I wasn't in the "'Let's take over the Ad Building!' crowd -- in part because I was determined to do all I could to graduate (the U. of C. was a tough school), in part because that wasn't my style (for one thing, I'd earlier met some people who were leaders in the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley, and they struck me as manipulative ass-----).

The point made above about " the students [at] the more prestigious colleges [being] the most self-conscious about the value of their achievements" is interesting. There's truth to that, I'm sure, especially these days, but thinking back to my time at the U. of C., the toughness of the curriculum more or less kicked the arrogance out of us ( at least it licked it out of me). OTOH in later years I've found U. of C. alumni to be a remarkably smug and prideful crew by and large.

Edward Amame

Eric Newhill

You found the research so well done, others not so much. Charles Lane delves pretty deeply into the tainted sources of the Bell Curve here:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1994/12/01/the-tainted-sources-of-the-bell-curve/

"A huge number of well-meaning whites fear that they are closet racists, and this book tells them they are not. It's going to make them feel better about things they already think but do not know how to say.” That's Charles Murray on another one of his books, this one called "Losing Ground." Are you beginning to see a theme?

ex-PFC Chuck

Col., Tyler used the term "cultural Marxism" up thread.

Croesus

Ironic that it's an abomination for immature college students to have "demonized" and attempted to prevent Charles Murray from speaking, evoking cries of outrage from their wiser elders, but those same elders still rely on "neo-Nazi" as an all-purpose disqualifier. Isn't it time mature men & women disabused themselves of such prejudices and, instead, sought to inform their thinking on the basis of facts and evidence rather than shop-warn propaganda?

Germar Rudolf conducted scientific tests that provided sound evidence that gas chambers were not used to kill Jews. For this he was fined, jailed, his home searched, his doctoral program at Max Planck Institute terminated, he was exiled from his homeland, Germany; he lives in tenuous exile in first amendment-protected USA. Amazon has de-listed books that Rudolf has published; free speech only goes so far.

Why is one topic -- the one Rudolf has researched-- such a complete taboo in the USA (and Europe)? I recently listened to a panel discussion of the causes of World War I that concluded with the earnest exhortation that "new information and new interpretations are constantly being made known; historians must revise their thinking and teaching accordingly."
Shouldn't that apply across all fields of study, whether planetary motion, or racial biology and intelligence, or the history of a war?

In my judgment, a genuine patriot would insist on the right and even responsibility to demand critical analysis of historic events, particularly since so much of foreign policy-making relies on interpreting US claims emerging from World War II. If the underlying analysis is unsound, policy based upon it cannot possibly be productive.

optimax

A woman I know teaches special education classes, writes about it for journals and tests students abilities. She says they are by law not allowed to test student's IQ, or even use a test with the word intelligence, but instead measure the grade he tests at--such as the grade level he is able to read at. The concept of intelligence is considered racist and has been discarded even though it still measures cognitive ability.

Even more interesting is New York State is dropping its requirement that teachers have to quality by passing a literacy test because only 46 percent of Hispanics and 41 percent of blacks pass the test on the first try while 64 percent of whites pass. In other words, the test must be racist. And we wonder why our educational system is failing our children when teachers are hired according to their skin color instead of their ability.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/story/news/education/2017/03/11/test-meant-screen-teachers-instead-weeded-out-minorities/99050796/

How can someone who believes in evolution not realize that after tens-of-thousands of years of adapting to different environmental demands each ethnic group will inherit its own unique physical, emotional and intellectual traits? This doesn't mean one group is superior to another, though each tribe thinks it is. It's a basic ingredient of tribal mythology many still cling to.

MRW

What happened in this country when the 18 year olds were toddlers?

9/11.

And the ramping up of the whole ‘we must keep our children safe’ syndrome. The rally cry behind the word safe has become a crescendo. Anything was and is justified in its name. Including producing boring kids who have the individuality and spunk of spent shells. (Look at the cars on the road. Can’t tell the difference between a Suburu and a Porsche. Boring. Mundane things designed in a wind tunnel, but still not allowed to go more than 70-80 mph on a freeway.)

Got to be driven to school, picked up from school. Clutched to the family nuclei because danger abounds just beyond the garage door. Every moment supervised, "play dates,” then recitations at the family dinner table about who and what is a danger to society. The who and what now include ideas.

I wouldn’t be asking what happened to the kids 18+ years ago. It’s what happened to their parents.

MRW

In the Golden Age of Islamic Science (700 Ad to ~1500 AD), it was the Whites, the European whites, who were considered stupid and subhuman. The Christian monks and Jewish scribes would make pilgrimages to Cordoba to get Latin translations of Arabic science texts. (All of this has been preserved in monasteries and synagogues, which is how British historians were able to write about this in the early part of the 20th C.)

Europe was still in The Dark Ages. European kings and queens still lived in single-room barns with their animals and a central hole in the roof so that cooking smoke could leave.

Cordoba, on the other hand, was a city of 1.5 million with paved roads and raised sidewalks. They had invented a method of irrigation from the Sierra Nevada mountains--never replicated until the 1930s--that fed the fields and vineyards (yaaas, the Muslims produced wine) and permitted magnificent courtyards with fountains long before the idea was even a ding-dong in the European mind. Just google Al-Hambra to see what they produced in 874 AD. The Al-Hambra is a protected UNESCO building now. However, all of their other creations were renamed Christian creations and absconded with by the Spanish King after 1500 AD., so we don’t know about the real history.

Whites were considered dumb and dumber. They were unkempt. They didn’t wash. They had no education, certainly nothing in comparison to Islamic Sciences, didn’t come close. The Arabs were generous in their hospitality to them, but they considered them luddites. While Europe was still scratching its head trying to figure out Euclid’s Fourth Principle, the people of Cordoba were doing trigonometry and calculus on the streets in 900 AD.

Ishmael Zechariah

MRW,
Are you intimating, then, that the European civilization was started via the affirmative action policies of the Andalusian elites?
Ishmael Zechariah

Fred

Edward,

Which colleges and universities does the 503C group Turning point run? Oh, yeah, zero of them. Try again.

 jld

And all these muslim wonders "miraculously" turned to the deep shit we now witness, curious no?

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