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19 March 2017

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Patrick S.

Well, the idea was to hook into the proposed Nabucco pipeline in Turkey, and thence to Europe. One possible route was Saudi Arabia -- Jordan -- Syria -- Turkey. However, a little investigation indicates that the proposed pipeline was already dead in the water for a couple of reasons, one being the fact that Saudi Arabia would never consent, another that the Nabucco pipeline has been more or less dropped. So, the pipeline theory appears false, even though it is more or less accepted fact in certain circles.

Thirdeye

http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/1.778343

Maybe it's wishful thinking on the part of Syria, maybe it's real.

turcopolier

b

I think the whole pipeline thing is very improbable. The concept ignores regional alliances and unwillingness to accommodate competitors. pl

turcopolier

james

The USA possesses military traditions of subordination to the constitution so strong that any action not in accordance with that would occur only in extremis so severe that the country would be in the process of disintegration. pl

Heros

Col,

You write: "Neither Arleigh Burke nor any other military official has any authority whatever to countermand an order from SECDEF or the president. Their opinions are interesting but only that."

As a civilian my understanding is that the Nuremburg trials were supposed to establish that a military officer fulfilling orders that violate the constitution or international law were guilty of war crimes and were legally obligated at a minimum to not fulfil those orders. Many German officers were hanged for precisely this. Am I mistaken, or do international laws that were enforced on the Germans not apply to Americans?

turcopolier

Heros

I spoke of orders consistent with international and US law. Their opinion of what is legal may be different than yours. Within the scope of legal orders, the opinions of military officers are only advisory in nature. pl

turcopolier

Heros

I find it amusing that you use the name of a Prussian cavalryman who came to America to serve as a volunteer under JEB Stuart. pl

LondonBob

http://original.antiwar.com/porter/2016/09/23/war-assad-regime-not-pipeline-war/

Quite, saying oil is just more socially acceptable than blaming Israel.

Babak Makkinejad

EU dependence on Russia energy has been a canard; it was so during the Cold War and it has been so since 1990. I cannot recall any instance that there was ever a public thread by the Russian leaders to disrupt the flow of gas.

Immature countries tend to do so, thinking that they are being tough; by hurting their customers; like when Iran ended gas flow to USSR or Turkmenistan to Iran.

Babak Makkinejad

All:

Putin wants ME to be quiet.

Xi wants ME to be quiet.

EU leaders want ME to be quiet.

Trump wants ME to be quiet (so that he can concentrate on his domestic agenda.)

Israelis will comply.

Babak Makkinejad

Nabucco will never be built.

Peter AU

So many interests aligned against Syria Beaver. Brookings "Which path to Persia".. Rand corps "Peace plan for Syria".. Qatari pipelines.. religious Wahabbi Saudi's.. Israel and the Shia crescent.. Turkey, the new ottoman empire.. and I guess the list goes on.
But oil as the most traded commodity seems to be the thing that is most fought over.

Generalfeldmarschall von Hindenburg

I think you have the right idea. Trump wants to normalize relations with Russia and put pressure on China. Netanyahu knows he can play the Americans like a cheap guitar which keeps the Russians from just swatting at his planes. So the Russians (and Syrians) have to put up with these token 'strikes' (which- who knows? May not have been targeting anything worthwhile at all)- just Bibi peeing on the hydrant and leaving his mark.

Outrage Beyond

" Look, Netanyahu went to Moscow imploring. Why? He went to intercede with President Putin because he is afraid of the defeat of Daesh in Syria. For the defeat of Daesh for Putin - excuse me, for Netanyahu, constitutes a victory for the Resistance and the Resistance Axis. Because for Netanyahu, Daesh's defeat in Syria is a failure of the project he has supported for 6 years. So he went to beg (Putin). Oh, what do you do with Daesh, calm down with Daesh! For if you finish Daesh, what are you going to do with Iran, Hezbollah, President Assad, and the rest of the Resistance Axis?
"

--Hassan Nasrallah

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46695.htm

Jackrabbit

After reading some of the comments here, especially Andy's, I wonder if the Israeli air attack on Palmyra was meant to be a false flag.

Such an attack seems similar to the US attack on Deir Ez-or last fall and if attributed to US/Coalition forces might put an end to improved US-Russian relations.

Andy notes that the Israeli's were unusually frank afterward - perhaps because the FF failed so they had to offer a plausible explanation?

Thirdeye

I have my doubts that the Deir Ezzor attack was the work of Israel. The US command was embarrassed in that situation and if it were really not a US operation they could have made a forceful denial. The Israelis couldn't have pulled off a false flag without the US voluntarily taking the fall.

Kooshy

Yes but Europe has is not and has not been in a war with her back country supply room (Russia) since WWII, the cautionary planing for diversity is for, incase of a US/Western Europe war with Russia.

Babak Makkinejad

In my opinion, EU leaders understand very well that they do not have any strategic leverage or option against the Russia Federation. They never seriously contemplated any alternative to Russian, Libyan, and Algerian gas that currently supplies them. Indeed, if they were serious, there would already have been a pipeline from South Pars to Thessaloniki by now.


Timothy Hagios

For the false flag to be successful, they'd have to be certain that radar systems would be unable to detect where the jets were coming from and going back to. I've heard reports of the radars being jammed/spoofed, but I don't think they really know if they were effective there or not.

turcopolier

James

Yes. The war in Iraq was an unnecessary war. I opposed it before and during at some cost to me, but it was neither an unconstitutional nor an illegal war. It was fought because of the baleful influence of the neocon group in the Bush43 Administration. This had nothing whatever to do with what you people call the MIC. In fact the defense industry was taken by surprise by the event. they recovered from their surprise and made a lot of money out of that war and the one in Afghanistan but that does not mean they CAUSED these wars. Canada has no enemies and has tiny armed forces. Why not just opt out of the world and the RCMP can then concentrate on rounding up refugees fleeing the US. pl

Jackrabbit

I think you misunderstood/misread what I wrote.

I was not suggesting that Israel was responsible for the Deir Ez-or attack. I wrote "similar to the US attack on Deir Ez-or".

Jackrabbit

Occam's Razor argues for a false flag attempt.

The Israeli's risked much in conducting this strike. I don't think it is likely that they would have assumed that risk for a tactical battlefield gain.

turcopolier

All

IMO the psychological imperative for the Israelis of demonstrating their superiority and dominance has nothing to do with tactical advantage. pl

Sam Peralta

james, no straw men here. Petro-dollar as causation for US interventions are just conspiracy theories, not rooted in fact as major currencies are freely exchangeable in scale. A reserve currency is as much of a bane as it is a benefit.

If you've been here at SST for a while, you will likely conclude that economic determinism for recent foreign policy decision making by the US is not a good explanation as for example, the US has not reaped any financial windfalls. There are much better, more plausible rationales.

LeaNder

james, I would not consider it setting up and knocking down straw men. But the terminology fits into the context.

One sure can get a little tired after a while concerning the them. Not least since it always pops up as the ultimate hidden reason.

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