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02 February 2017

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trinlae

"MO, these antics are driving even some of those who did not vote for Trump to his side."

So many independents, such as Bernie bros betrayed by dnc (and later Bernie himself in some not necessarily unforgivable sense) have felt so completely disenfranchised and unrepresented by any political or social economic process for so long that the idea of political or financial support from this enormous sector of society is almost meaningless. The calculus is more about who has insulted and harmed them the least, but like the serially traumatized, it is not enough to read that as any form garnished support.

It would imo be a mistake for any rogue civil servants to count on any sympathies from the alienated. In other words, the bottom has dropped out of the old, partisan, ping pong duopoly dialectic for a huge sector of the population. Notice how convenient it is for the big money players that no one can see the flashing red lights emanating from the Pam Martens and Tyler Durdens among us pointing to the trillions of uncapitalized bank exposures in derivatives of the Wall St banks (http://wallstreetonparade.com/2017/01/donald-trump-has-a-goldman-sachs-problem-derivatives/)

To those with nothing, there is nothing to lose and there is no stake in this war between oligarch titans and their middle class minions. After decades of being abused, all they can do is watch from the sidelines!

paul

he is a tv star, not a politician, the motivation is publicity, drama, and story, i would expect a constant and steady leak of "private conversation" through out his presidency.

The Twisted Genius

This organizing of federal employees to actively resist the Administration's policies sounds like the classic definition of a resistance movement. Depending on the level of resistance undertaken, these employees should expect dismissal or imprisonment if caught by "forces loyal to the regime" executing acts of sabotage. If you are an active member of an underground resistance, you can't expect mercy from the very authorities you are resisting.

However, I don't see anything undertaken or planned by the Trump Administration to make it an enemy of the Constitution and, thus, worthy of such a resistance movement. Unless the Supreme Court and/or Congress determines the Executive branch to be in violation of the Constitution and the Executive branch persists in that violation, I can't support any resistance, armed or otherwise, designed to overthrow the Executive branch.

On the other hand, undertaking a policy of doing anything possible to make the President fail in everything he tries was an acceptable policy of many Republicans and others on the right soon after Obama was elected. I remember an awful lot of calls for resistance to Obama, even armed resistance, over the years. I didn't see it (armed resistance) happening then and I don't see it happening now. Until things change drastically, we can expect dissent and resistance to continue. The country is evenly divided and neither side should expect the other to give up and lay down. We've just exchanged roles.

Valissa

Perfect example of why I left the left (and became a non-partisan). A fascinating blend of faux-tolerance and character assassination, deeply embedded in righteous indignation. Not even a passing mention of the actual policy disagreements involved... whether it's limiting immigration or limiting free speech.

The gist of the statement... Milo is very bad and he makes us very upset because we disagree with him so we have decided he is a bigot and a hater. People who live in glass houses, etc etc.

I have only heard of him recently, but it appears his shtick is to play the bad boy who upsets people. Clearly he is effective at that. And effective at makings liberals look childish as they overreact to him.

It appears that the left today is automatically conflating any discussion of immigration policy they don't like as hate speech and bigotry. Do you believe that everyone who wants to limit immigration at a national level for economic or security reasons hates or even dislikes immigrants at a personal level? That's a pretty nasty conflation. Australia has a very strict immigration policy... as do many other countries... does this make them all haters and bigots?

Keith Harbaugh

Colonel Lang wrote:

A small example of the chaos that would ensue from a failure of function was provided by the ineptitude of the Trump Administration in not staffing and coordinating the "immigration" EO across the interagency last week.

Politico has an explanation for that:
"Distrust in Trump’s White House spurs leaks, confusion"
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-aides-distrust-confusion-leaks-234550

From the Politico article:

While reports have emerged in recent days about various officials blindsided by the orders, interviews with several people involved in the process reveal the extent of the secrecy and chaos.
The highly controversial immigration and travel ban signed by Trump last Friday was so tightly held that White House aides, top Cabinet officials, Republican leaders on Capitol Hill and other Trump allies had no idea what was in it even when it was signed — and that was just how top advisers and aides wanted it.

"Someone would have leaked it," one administration official said.

kooshy

Colonel Lang, Borgistan? that's a new one to me, once I made and used Likudestan for Israel I guess they are similar.

Valissa

Jack, when I try to tell my liberal friends about this amazing Democratic congresswoman from Hawaii they show no interest in knowing much about her. Only when she protested the pipeline did anyone acknowledge her at all. My Dem friends are clueless about the deep systemic problems that their party and their current ideology has... all they can do is go primal scream about Trump... it's quite incredible.

Blowback is a bitch.

Berkeley Blowback: Milo Book Sales Soar 12,740% Overnight http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-02/berkeley-blowback-milo-book-sales-soar-12740-overnight
Following the violent anti-free-speech protests in Berkeley, California last night - sparked by cal's special snowflakes hurt feelings at the potential words that would come out of Milo Yiannopoulos' mouth during a sold-out event - it appears America's curiousity has been piqued.

Sales of Milo's book have increased 12,740% overnight sending it rocketing from 642nd to 5th ranked best-seller on Amazon. Pretty impressive considering the book is not even released until March 14th 2017.

... So despite all the best efforts of the liberal intelligentsia to shut down his 'free-speech' last night - hurting the feelings of 600 conservatives who were looking forward to the event - we suspect a lot more than 600 Americans are now about to get a crash course in how Milo thinks.
------------

Sam Peralta

Action speak louder than words. Lots of rhetoric and statements from different members of Team Trump with respect to Russia.

The Treasury however took an action albeit small.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/02/russia-hails-us-treasurys-tweak-to-sanctions-as-new-dawn-in-cooperation

turcopolier

KH

The leaking is not the issue. The issue is the ineptitude in not knowing that you have to coordinate a paper like this through the interagency is the issue. pl

Ingolf


Yes, you raise a critical point, perhaps the critical point, at least in foreign policy terms.

I would think the reason for bringing Bannon onto the NSC is exactly as you suggest. Trump (and of course Bannon) are hoping to build and sustain some strategic consistency. Whether Trump realises how difficult that's likely to be is one of the really interesting questions.

Jack

VV

The focus in the media was all about the theatrics of the call. I could not easily find the issue with the refugees. Apparently some people from Bangladesh, Iraq and other countries have been trying to enter Australia illegally. They are caught and housed in detention camps in Nauru and PNG. Australia doesn't want to take these illegals into their country. However for some reason we are expected to receive these people that the Aussies will not take. If this is correct I agree this is a dumb deal by Obama.

optimax

Malcolm Turnball says his call with Trump ended "courteously." He could be lying or it's fake news or a false leak. ABC news didn't mention Turnball's version but went with the report Trump hung up abruptly. As an added attraction they showed a clip of him making fun of Arnold's ratings. Real news.

optimax

Forgot the clip

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-38842289

Sam Peralta

The media is focused on the theatrics of the call. The issue that Trump considered a DUMB deal by Obama was conveniently lost in the shuffle.

Apparently there are 1,200 folks from Bangladesh, Iraq and other countries who tried to illegally get into Australia. They were interdicted and due to Australia's strict immigration laws not allowed in. However, they were detained in detention camps on Nauru and Papua New Guinea. No idea why Obama thought it was such a good idea for the US to take these illegals.

So, Australia has detained these people and will not take them but the US will. Why? Looks pretty dumb! Trump must have got pissed and told the Aussie PM to take a hike on the matter of the illegals.

ToivoS

That Daily Cal article specifically supports the right of the Campus Republicans to invite Milo to speak at Berkeley. The comments below the article were overwhelming in support.

In addition, the protesters that were involved in the violence were mostly anarchist from off campus though a couple were identified as students. In short the overwhelming majority of the administration, students and faculty remained faithful to principles of free speech. It takes only a few dozen idiots to turn peaceful protest into a violent riot. I am an alumnus from Berkeley and remain in contact with that community. I fully expected them to act in a principled and honorable way and they did. In this unfortunate situation they were the victims of agent provocateurs.

ToivoS

In my little burg I have just witnessed an episode of anti-Trump hysteria that has left me appalled. We voted for Hillary by 85% though in our non-partisan city council races there is often a Republican that wins. Very liberal town and liberal Republicans. The county chairwomen of the Republican committee owns the only book store in town. She has spoken publicly in support of Trump. This has provoked a call for a boycott of her business that has attracted a dozen signatures in the last 8 hours. This is unprecedented for us.

William Fitzgerald

Haley, at the U.N., was reported to have spoken "forcefully" in condemning Russian atrocities and aggression in The Ukraine by the CNN morning crew. As far as I can tell, the Kievite Ukrainians have been ratcheting up their attacks and the Donbass folks are responding in kind. I've not heard of atrocities or attacks by Russia. Is Haley the reincarnation of Samantha Power?
Is there any factual basis for the accusations?

WPFIII

turcopolier

William fitzgerald

With more of the adults "in place" and listening to the career people the administration is learning how to drive the machine and manage PR. pl

lally

ToivoS, as a Cal alum, you may be interested in this post that sets the record straight:

http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2017/2/2/14482840/anarchists-uc-berkeley-violence-protests-california-golden-bears

150 black-masked anarchists can do a lot of damage yet are somehow confused wit UCB students.

FB Ali

Frankly, I find it difficult to understand how Trump functions. Is he a very shrewd operator (as some say - for example, Scott Adams in http://tinyurl.com/znccfu9 )?

Or, are he and his administration just improvising as they stumble along from moment to moment, as so many believe?

For example, in an earlier comment above, I had quoted Alastair Crooke about Flynn's "on notice" statement on Iran (repeated by Trump later). If 'Dilbert' is correct, this is just an opening bid in a process of bargaining and negotiation, rather than the statement of a policy position.

Valissa

Good points. But this problem of agent provocateurs is not going to go away without a challenge. How are the legitimately peaceful protestors going to keep them from ruining their message? Knowing Milo's history in addition to current highly toxic anti-Trump protesting trends, the UCB folks (campus cops, community police, etc) should have been better prepared.

Hopefully Berkeley will join this trend...

The Fight For Free Speech: University of Chicago Leads Counter-Movement Against Speech Regulation https://jonathanturley.org/2016/09/02/the-fight-for-free-speech-university-of-chicago-leads-counter-movement-against-speech-regulation/
The University of Chicago last week promised incoming students something that is increasingly rare in the United States: an unfettered and uncensored education. While most schools are actively curtailing free speech, its letter warned the students that they will not be protected against ideas or given “safe spaces.” Instead, they will be educated in an open and free environment where they will be challenged by a range of different views — ideas that will at times thrill and at times outrage them.

Where a campus was once viewed as a free-speech zone by definition, many schools now designate isolated spaces for free speech while guaranteeing students “safety zones” to protect them against opposing views.

When I attended the University of Chicago in the 1980s, I found myself in the midst of an intellectually vibrant community with a cacophony of voices, from Trotskyites to black nationalists to radical feminists to creationists. Then-President Hanna Gray told us that “education should not be intended to make people comfortable; it is meant to make them think.” And it did. Students thought a lot about where they fit in this world of ideas.

Tragically, fewer and fewer students will experience such an awakening today as officials impose de facto speech codes. These ambiguous codes often define prohibited speech by how it is received by others — allowing the most sensitive or vocal members to define the permissible speech on campus. For example, the University of North Dakota bans student speech that “feels offensive” or “demeaning.” Many schools are also embracing the ill-defined notion of “microaggressions” — speech considered “negative” or “reinforcing” stereotypes. For example, saying that America is “the land of opportunity” is considered a microaggression at North Carolina State University, while “melting pot” is deemed such a violation at Berkeley.
--------------------

Some interesting follow up articles from people who were there...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/02/berkeley-today-after-action-report.php
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/02/a-victim-of-the-berkeley-violence-speaks.php

Another theory about the violence is that it was staged by Milo or his backers in order to promote his book sales and brand.

No matter the source of the violent agitators, colleges and universities, while protecting the free speech of peaceful protestors, need to also protect those who are being protested, and from a position of strength and leadership. If the university made it clear ahead of time that police would be nearby if things turned violent and that violent protestors would go to jail, that would make a big difference. Then there wouldn't be any victims of agent provocateurs to worry about.

This trend of violence needs to be nipped in the bud. Somehow liberals need to transform and redirect their inchoate anger against Trump (which makes them look really lame) into positive political change for their own communities or the Democratic party at large.

different clue

DC,

If the Trump has any people reading these threads, here is my free-advice answer to your question in case Trump's people might think it is worth more than every cent.

The TrumpAdmin should focus on Trump's own agenda FIRST and delay and deny action on every single thing that the mainstream Party Republicans want until they have helped him get his things through FIRST. Once his agenda items are so deeply entrenched that a successor Borg President cannot uproot them or even change them, THEN he can permit work on all the Party Republicans' pet hobby horses.

Because if he gives the Party Republicans everything they want FIRST, then they won't need him around anymore, and they won't want him around anymore. They will move to impeach so as to get their Borg President Pence. And the Clintobamacrats, including the Clintobamacrat Senators, would also prefer Borg President Pence in order to keep the Borg Game going.

So . . . Trump's people . . . if you are reading this, get the Trump stuff done first and promise the Party Republicans that Trump will turn to their issues AFTER they have helped Trump get all the Trump stuff done FIRST.

turcopolier

FB Ali

IMO Crooke is right about the general MO but Trump is being affected by the ignorami (Flynn&Harvey) as well as his naiveté about Israel. pl

different clue

ToivoS,

If those liberals are sooooo very liberal, why did they vote for Clinton?
If any of the people of your town voted for Sanders in the primary, it would be interesting to see if those primary Sanders voters support that boycott or not. My guess is that at-the-very-least a lower percent of Sanders voters support that boycott than the percent of Clinton voters.

Millions of Clintonites will be bitter for the rest of their lives that their beloved Cult Leader, her Imperial Majestic Royal Majesticness, was cheated out of the Throne which was so rightfully hers. I suspect Bitter Clintonism is behind some of this resisty-stuff. I wonder how many of the Pink Kitty Caps were knitted and then worn by Bitter Clinters.

LondonBob

Both can be true, Trump is learning, but he is very intelligent guy who picks thing up quickly.

As with Obama I would look what he does, not what he says. Trump will talk tough but tread softly, whilst Obama talked softly but stomped all over the place.

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