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12 December 2016


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Richard Armstrong


Gotta love folks who can't let go of the war between the states or the war of northern aggression whatever you want to call it. Should any political act/decision/doctrine cause a disgruntled minority to take up arms (again) the end result would be the same as it was before with no telling if the victors will be as magnanimous as before. The economic and international incentives for forgiving the Confederacy their treason longer exist.

Somehow living in the shadow of the Washington monument and romanticizing/ruminating/fantasing about armed rebellion (again) seems just wrong.


"In the last 14 months, Iraq has sought to buy thousands of specially designed aluminum tubes, which American officials believe were intended as components of centrifuges to enrich uranium. American officials said several efforts to arrange the shipment of the aluminum tubes were blocked or intercepted but declined to say, citing the sensitivity of the intelligence, where they came from or how they were stopped."



There's so many things wrong with this theory. I looked at the info-graphic, and you are telling me that Zerohedge just follows RT and "conspiracy theory" all day? What a load of rubbish, Zerohedge is a news aggregation site, it borrows from many, many sources. There's nothing remotely "grey" about it, they attribute their sources and provide links to primary data much better than CNN or the other TV news. Their journalism is better as well (not a high bar to jump).

On the 25th of November Zerohedge posted up the "Propornot" list of "fake news" websites, proudly showing themselves on the list and having a good jolly laugh at the stupidity of these other supposed Russian agents on the same list.

I mean, Ron Paul is supposedly a Russian agent, David Stockman -- Russian agent, Scott Horton from Antiwar is now supposed to be a Russian agent... come on guys!! Matt Drudge and Lew Rockwell all Russian agents. That is so massively unbelievable.

Now looking at the info-graphic again we have neat little logos for "Fancy Bear" and "Cozy Bear"... those are nothing more than nicknames given by one particular cybersecurity outfit, the logos are merely to convince fools and give this thing a touch of realism. This is so obviously just made up.

No one has solid evidence that "Fancy Bear" and "Cozy Bear" are even connected to the Russian government, when you chase it down all they came up with is timezones and datestamps that suggested a working week in Russia. Anyone could fake that, and even if it wasn't fake it still isn't a strong link. Then we don't have any link whatsoever to prove that Wikileaks got hacked emails from a Russian source. Assange has specifically said the emails did not come from Russia, although you don't have to believe him, Assange hinted it was probably the recently murdered Seth Rich who leaked the DNC emails. Then there was Hillary's server with next to no security and believed to be hacked by multiple foreign governments, so those emails could be anywhere and everywhere by now.

Sites like Infowars have been anti-establishment for decades. Alex Jones sells his water filters and power pills and he has been chasing any little bit of anti-government information. Maybe he gets some from Russia, but really he gets it from all over the place. They report on refugee attacks in Europe, and on freedom of speech, various local elections, world news items, and on anything else that comes along. Nothing has changed here, suddenly he's a Russian agent too? Why wasn't he a Russian agent two years ago, or five years ago? Jones hates the Bush family, and he also hates the Clinton family, and he's been opposed to them for a long, long time. The reason Jones supports Trump is bleedingly obvious: because Trump is a viable alternative to the establishment.

I mean, you don't have to believe what Alex Jones says, he might be a bit of a fruitloop, but Russian agent? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I should also point out that America was built on anti-establishment guys. Remember that Bob Dylon fellow, won some kind of prize recently? You think he was a great supporter of the political establishment? Remember Smedley D. Butler, saying "War is a Racket". Does that make him a Russian agent, because he didn't toe the Washington line?

James Winston Smith

Another fine example of Russian reflexive control -- convincing Angela Merkel and the trans-Atlantic media desperate to anoint her the last leader of the free world to label any patriotic German opposition to her disastrous open borders policies as either neo-Nazi, Russian funded, or both. Well done FSB/GRU, you really know how to make not only Merkel but her Atlantic Council backers more despised by a growing number of Germans. #MerkelMussWeg

James Winston Smith

The Gulfies seem adept at exploiting a sort of odd Islamo-globalist that is neither authentically traditionalist with respect to the Qu'ran/hadiths or the Islamic world, nor liberal. Perhaps there's a psychological void that leaves so many teenage boys really joining Bellingcat's online rooting for moderate Syria jihadis club, where everyone understands Russia and Iran are the absolute villains and anyone asking serious questions about the quality of the leader's intel or qualifications to analyze it is renounced as a Russian troll and their comment is quickly deleted.

In some respects I think Eliot Higgins is an OSINT cult leader, convincing the faithful of things that he cannot possibly know from his couch in Leicester, UK and that OSINT by itself can solve the MH17 whodoneit with Uncle Sam never having to present a single sat pic of the supposed Russian BUK that did it to the world, much less ELINT proving the Kupola radar of the BUK the Donbass pro-Russians captured from the Ukrainians was ever operational.

Perhaps it is this sociological or psychological void in (post)Western societies whereby so many young men feel alienated that motivates very few to go full jihadi, but others to become jihadist by vicarious propagandizing. Without even the slightest self-awareness of their double standards, so that for example the Syrian Arab Army and its militia allies stand accused of burning men, women and even children alive after retaking east Aleppo, but the Odessa Trades Union building where that really happened was just 'separatists' burning themselves up by throwing Molotov cocktails at closed windows.

WoTR deleted my comment mentioning Andrew Weisburd's Internet Haganah history and how his most recent article for The Daily Beast failed to mention at all that the Turks our NATO allies cut the external power to Incirlik Air Base for a week. Which is surely relevant to the question of Americans believing 'Russian Active Measures' propaganda regarding an imminent Turkish storming of the base etc. Seems Weisburd just didn't want to mention a serious problem with a NATO ally but that's omission to the point of lying IMO.

James Winston Smith

In some odd ways I think the attempt to de-legitimize Trump as a Russian stooge looks eerily familiar to the pre and during Maidan playbook. Let us hope and pray no mysterious snipers appear out of nowhere to shoot anti-Trump protests and then melt away as easily as they arrived to buildings the anti-Trump Maidan people control.

James Winston Smith

Or at least serious secession talk, on the left in California and on the right in Texas. Thank God I don't see it happening but that doesn't mean someone isn't desperate or foolish enough to try something very ugly.


Well, if the Russians were smart enough to get Trump elected, were they not smart enough to think what would happen if enough people started to believe it was because of Russian involvement? That is, you might as well give them credit for the ensuing civil war as well.


The Podesta emails showed two things:

1. He lost his cell phone in a taxi
2. His password was phished from him using a BS google link

That certainly doesn't set the bar very high as to who could have been behind the attacks. And getting into the DNC probably wasn't much more difficult.

I can see the desire to want to believe that the Russians did this, but as they say, the proof is in the pudding, and I haven't seen enough yet to show me that this was some sophisticated operation that only a nation state could undertake. I mean come on, John Brennan had his email hacked, and the FBI tracked down two 20 somethings from North Carolina as the culprits.

Daniel Nicolas


Thank you for this comment & post. I've said for years that to the unaware yet observant, it would appear that all Russia has to do is point out the vast hypocrisy, corruption, and insanity that has been happening for the past many years. All they have to do is report ~some~ of the truth of what is happening. Our government and the media give the world more than enough rope to do the hanging.

I think Putin has been very open about things in this regard in the past decade, in that he represents Russia and Russian interests and that they will always look out for their own interests and survival.

RU and USA have some shared interests and the USA .gov has been acting against our own interests and against the interests of RU, so it makes sense that RU would be trying their best to turn the tide using whatever means they needed.

There were a few 'fake' articles that the media used to try to destroy the legitimacy of the rising alternatives to their 24/7 spin. When 'Morning Joe' or the WaPo, etc. refuse to provide the actual 'news' and I am forced to come to the posts and comments from this committee here at SST to find out what is actually happening in Syria, it is no surprise that they're lashing out and trying to label everything other than their own selves as 'fake news'.


@TTG - you are disappointing me falling into that laughable "Russia did it" trap.

The hacks were not sophisticated at all (and yes, I KNOW how to hack). Podesta clicked on a fake link in an email and gave his email password away. Someone copied the emails and send them up to Wikileak's inbox.
Any 12 year old, even a Trump fan, could do that. Judging from my inbox many try each and every day.

I have not seen even 1 small scrap of evidence that Russia is involved on any of this. Only hearsay about alleged evidence. Oh the Russian's have some theory of Information Warfare? Funny then - how come they lose IW all the time?

In the 1930 U.S. commercial IW sold cigarettes as "torches of freedom" to young women. "White Helmets" are a U.S./UK funded commercial IW organization. Such is going, and has been going on, in the anglo-american world forever.

And now you believe the "Russia did it" crap? Cm'on.

The Porkchop Express

Valissa, TTG, et. al.,

I love this entire thread and I'm making some of the same points. But unless SVR or GRU agents were literally handing in ballots or hacking directly into voting machines, I can't blame the Russians for trying to influence. That being said, however, most of the objectives in the article were/are (and most you previously noted) underlying or systemic issues inherent to our polity/system. If the Russians did anything, they simply heightened the contradictions that already existed.

I am equally disturbed by the witch hunt. Implicitly it comes across as condescending and arrogant--as if the American people were too stupid to make decisions without the help of the Russians. Even if Putin personally delivered DNC/Clinton emails on a usb stick to Assange or disseminated "fake news" to sully Clinton or the Dems, it wasn't as if a large majority of the population didn't realize or perceive these people were full of shit--it simply went from being a "known unknown" to a "known known," to borrow from another Don. At that point, the choice was to accept it and ignore it, or accept it and do something about it. But the agency of choice, regardless of the motivations of the Russians, was still American.

And further still, the Congressional witch hunt (unless itself another Russian IO operation) is only further making the interference (particularly points 1-3) an even larger win for the Russians than likely intended. Reminds of Bin Laden's desire for the US to get bogged down into massive occupational wars in the middle east--almost as if our enemies know us better than we know ourselves.

The Porkchop Express


Former 11B

It won't be North vs South. You're whole premise is wrong

I am a Bernie Sanders, Howard Dean guy. If the results are negated I will join the rebellion against those attempting it.

Watching my preferred candidate always get screwed I understand the Democrats represent no one but their own elite. They extravagantly indulged in their favorite sport of Hippy Bashing. Now that the Hippies turned around and planted one right in the kisser, the estrogen laced wailing is pathetic.How does losing everything just to feel superior work for em I wonder?

The most telling thing is how the same people who insisted Trump suck it up and live with the results now refuse to suck it up and live with it. Hypocrisy is a tell and the people who indulge in it disqualify themselves from the conversation and also the category of worthwhile human.

Tears of a sore loser and someone who is very un-self aware.


Richard Armstrong

Nobody said anything about North and South. You are living in a fantasy drive by your hostility to the South. pl


Are you referring to Antoly Karlin?



"Secession?" No, just widespread violence and refusal to accept an electoral college coup. pl


The personal loyalty Trump commands embedded in a polarizing socio-political landscape would probably trigger demands for states that went big for the Donald to suspend Federal authority. If he isn't nominated, his supporters will interpret that as a coup by the establishment. The message they will receive is 'there is no possible outcome where you will get your way.'


North-South isn't going to happen. It would be much worse for the losing side if it happens again and it won't be the South. What will Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC and environs, LA, SF, Portland, and Seattle do when the trucks stop rolling in with their foodstuffs and vintage wines? I don't think there will be any need for violence at all, our country will just stop till the elitists figure out who really runs this country (or at least, keeps it running).


the situation today isn't the slave holding south vs the North.

It's the people who vote for the slave holding global elites in the coastal centres vs the rest of the country.


As to your fears of the formation of "Ministry of Truth" offices, we should fight that tooth and nail ...

I wondered all my life if and if, how best old terms born in an earlier context can be easily transported into new environments and contexts: Ministry of Truth. ...

I no doubt grasp them on an personal/emotional layer like everyone else.

leakage, to the extend it is always limited, is a much more complex field, it feels, again from my limited nitwit personal emotional layers.


If Trump himself acceded to the selection of someone else (a longshot, yes, but God knows there may be pressures upon him we know not of) I expect that would dampen violent reaction. I note the so-motivated hard core of his supporters, those prone to take up arms, remain in the minority of a minority... maybe 3-5%? Nothing to scoff at, given the weapons & ordnance laying readily at hand for everyone. But in the main Americans prefer bitching-about to killing one another over ideas. Don't see the states that were disenfranchised to want to start a War Among the States - out of the comfort zone of those governing.
The high concept of Presidential De-legitimization (that phrase will never take) is a significant theme that dovetails well with the fact that presidential power just ain't what it used to be. Sure, there's the power of arms but that isn't exactly an unalloyed tool over the past half-century. And $$$ isn't everything, especially the way government wields it. Trump will example just how the mighty office has fallen.
A well-crafted Reflexive Control operation is one that plays the probabilities and shoots not for the moon, but for a range of advantages independent of the exact outcome, accepting that those outcomes are never exact (it's large numbers of actirs & entities running open-loop). I think Putin is satisfied that Russia wins, regardless of the way things turn out in detail.

Edward Amame


Yes, like it or not, that is how the Electoral College works.


I have no doubt that Trump will be sworn in come January. And then the screwing of the mostly middle class white Americans who voted for him by McConnell, Pence, Ryan, etc will commence post haste.

Edward Amame






It was to avert a nuclear (nuklar) confrontation. If Hillary and her minions had made the White House home, there would be an inevitable war between our beloved U.S. and Russia. Hillary and her staff minions are nut jobs that belong far and away from the BIG red button, (and the itty bitty nuklar suitcase). Putin could see this early on, remember Putin was looking for a pressure relief valve from the incessant NATO encroachment, and he has found one. IMO hopefully in the near future we the U.S. will be exiting stage-left out of NATO and will be able to watch NATO crumble into oblivion, and see even more pressure relief regarding a U.S.-Russia confrontation.

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