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02 December 2016

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Fred

BNW,

That's the borg in action. Read paragraph one:
"... it represents a win for Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz., a fervent advocate of helping the rebels..."

McCain hates Trump. He'll push this crap until he dies of old age.

Nuff Sed

Sorry, with the auto-correct function turned on, one should always proofread. "Rhinitis" was supposed to be "thinking".

Nuff Sed

1. I suppose so. What I mean to say is that the Persian pallet prefers a softer sound, and so softens it. And if one's intention is to try to represent the sound as faithfully as possible, then one has to change the orthography accordingly, i. e. to reflect the Persian expression or enunciation.

2. Not sure what you mean, but what I meant was that pronounciation and accents vary in time as well as through different regions, and there is nothing you can do about the fact that your "system" can be no more than a snap shot at best, even if you use a wide-angle lens - and the problem obtains irrespective of whether you are engaged in transcription or transliteration (because when your Latinization approach is to represent the text or sound "as pronounced", then it is all transcription, as you must convert the text to a sound reel mentally before you can proceed to Latinize it). Nuff Sed.

turcopolier

Nuff Sed

You can transliterate however you like but I don't quite see the point. Ibn Taymiyya is an Arab name. so far as I know the man spoke Arabic as his native tongue and would have pronounced his name as an Arab would, not as a Persian would have. I do not know what your field is but one of the most interesting things about Classical Arabic is its immense lexicon seemingly unchanged for centuries and ever growing by accretion. It is in fact the "tongue of the angels." (liisaan al mala-ika) pl

Nuff Sed

It seems that by the grace of God everything north of the citadel has fallen or is falling and things are winding down to mop up operations.

"That which is falling should also be pushed." - Nietzsche

Nuff Sed

Colonel:
In answer to your latest comment in our conversation thread above (joined by LeaNder), while you are of course right about the miscreant and the probable pronounciation of his own name, that is not what governs. Explaining that would be too cumbersome in such a format, so I respectfully decline to do so. Nuff Sed.

turcopolier

Nuff Sed

What do you teach? pl

turcopolier

pundita

Yes, Doucet's reporting from the refugee shelters was still slanted against the government but it began to approach reality. pl

Cee

Third eye,

I saw a slight admission of that on CNN this AM.

Will.2718

Whoah, this is a well known point. The Hashemites of Hijaz were supported by the British Egyptian Office by their agent TE Lawrence. On the other hand, the British India Office placed their bet on ibn-Saud, thus leading to the present medieval Kingdom of Saudi Barbaria.

I know just little enough to be dangerous, but have always thought that if King Feisal has not been betrayed by the Brits to the French in setting up his Greater Syria kingdom in Damascus, world history would have taken a more positive turn.

Also if the holy cities and Hejaz had remained with the Hashemites, things would have turned out much better. But then again, the Brits made all kinds of promises to everybody, including the Zionists

Cee

Fred,

I'll have to dig up my photos of McCain with the Takfiri Rats. I me that term too.
One of them is responsible for beheading a Palestinian child.

Tyler

Croesus,

Except you can be a heretic in Catholicism as there is a Catechism and a Magisterium. You're doing cartwheels around the facts here.

Tyler

BNW,

McCain, Lindsay Graham, and Jeff Flake are all trying to push through Gang of Eight as well.

I so hope Flake gets removed from the Senate. That guy has been a cuck since he was sworn in.

Nuff Sed

Colonel:

I'm not in academia, praise God. I write and translate (Islamic texts from Persian to English), concentrating on dogma and apologetics.

Nuff Sed.

turcopolier

Nuff Sed

OK. That explains everything. How did Ibn Sina become Avicenna in European usage? pl

Nuff Sed

Some fool probably mistransliterated his name "as pronounced", and the rest is history. Also, recall that the v and b sounds are interchangeable, as in Spanish. Could have happened in Cordoba/ Cordova. Nuff Sed.

turcopolier

Nuff Sed

Was Avicenna not from Bukhara? pl

Ken Roberts

Thanks LG for that part 1 video -- in English. Very interesting.

At about 44-minute mark, the topic of neighbourhood militias is talked about, statement made that the formation of govt-associated militia (eg, with comms to army to request assist) was instrumental in preventing or reducing terrorist attacks. I wondered about those militia groups.

Russian news often has articles saying some-number of reconciliation agreements reached -- for example, this link:

http://tass.com/world/916563

Are such agreements related to the role played by these local militias?

Nuff Sed

I was using Cordoba to illustrate the phonetic shift from b to v.

Pundita

Colonel, of course the most effective propaganda does contain truths. But you were able to pick out an approach to reality in the report because you're very knowledgeable and an expert observer of things that most minds pass over as detail.

For the vast majority of viewers, whatever truths she approached were obscured by the impression that her emphasis and the report's visuals -- and editing -- created.

IMO it was a sophisticated piece of propaganda, aimed at creating a specific impression. And if Doucet was the person who edited that report, then she is a real pro. My hat would be off to her.

A recent Sputnik report mentioned that the Russian government realizes it has to find ways to counter the "information war" being waged against it by the West. The Russians will have to get up much earlier in the morning if they want any success at doing this. But it would be the same for Americans who are trying to fight 'fake' news.

Fighting the best fake news in this era is like trying to fight a mirror. The persuasion techniques are based on brain research findings, not the clunky psychology experiments Behaviorists used in the 1950s to condition the responses of the masses.

There's no more guesswork, Colonel. Because of this, maybe I'm reading too much into Doucet's reportage. Yet you'd understand why, if you saw the Charlie Rose PBS show in 2013 where he interviewed brain researchers who were working with governments, including the US, to convert findings about, say Alzheimer's Disease into techniques of persuasion.

The scientists were as much boasting in front of the camera about their successes in this area. I remember one scientist told a story about a government -- I vaguely recall it was Scandinavian -- that used research findings to mount a successful anti-litter campaign.

They'd never gotten good responses with "Don't litter" signs. They changed the wording to "People don't litter" and that was Open Sesame.

I recount the story to illustrate the precision of knowledge emerging from brain research about how the human animal thinks.

Brave new world, with a vengeance.

LeaNder

the problem obtains irrespective of whether you are engaged in transcription or transliteration (because when your Latinization approach is to represent the text or sound "as pronounced", then it is all transcription

1) usage does usually not refer to the sound, but to meaning, or what people want to express with a word no matter if written or spoken.

2) Look, I am aware that there is no clear cut boundary between transcription and transliteration from many a writing system to the other. Just as different languages use different sometimes mixed approaches to the letter/icon versus sound representation. I am also aware that authors dealing with matters usually have a section in the foreword discussing their choices in spelling, mostly, as I seem to recall, for what reasons they choose to deviate from standard systems and for what reasons. ...

**********
Final question: Are you somewhat suggesting that the current Arabic pronunciation (within the limits you suggest) is more closely related to the Persian/(Farsi?) writing system. Or its chosen path of historical/present rendering of spoken versus written language? Refering to this:

I also decided to go with an "as pronounced" system rather than the academicall preferred "as written" Latinization for the benefit of those who don't know how the words are supposed to be pronounced.

Personally I think it serves only to confuse nitwits like me who aren't familiar with either, at least concerning names I may have come across before. Thus for what precise reason do you beg to differ?

Jen

They're obviously working well together if they've got this far, that they can finally crush a de facto army of "jihadis" drawn from 100 different countries across the planet.

FourthAndLong

Didn't Kim Philby's papa deal with Ibn Saud -- while in Whitehall's employ, however covertly?? I realize it's a tough one, as he was even more devious than his son.

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