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27 November 2016


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Chris Chuba

Regarding the Washington Posts endorsement of the braintrust at 'PropOrNot', Glenn Greenwald did a brilliant takedown of that organization on 'The Intercept'.
I usually excerpt portions of articles that I post but in this case, just read it if you hate the thought police. He does a deep dive into PropOrNot.

I see great irony that there has been an avalanche of articles by the MSM denouncing 'fake news' and Russian propaganda for weeks now. The MSM marches in lockstep and says the exact same thing on all of their outlets and then denounces others are propagandists. In Dante's Inferno, there would be an appropriate punishment constructed for that. Have these people ever heard of a mirror?

William RAISER

The Borg will fight back (are fighting back) with all their vast resources -- media in particular. Trump is not a great standard bearer for the concerned Americans; but, for the moment, he's all we have. We need more "centerist/ordinary" Americans knowledgeable and active.


"It is not meant to deny a reasonable judgment by the people"

Our so called 'democracy' is defined according to a standard of 'reasonableness' propagated by the elite organs that manufacture consent. 'The sovereign is he who decides the exception.' - Carl Schmidt. In a Republic, sovereignty lies with the people. Lessig prefers the dictatorial interpretation.



Can I assume that you believe that Russia did not mount a propaganda offensive to influence the US election? What would be evidence that disproves your hypothesis, or is such evidence not possible?

Green Zone Café

It has begun to look like a coordinated campaign to me. Undoubtedly with better OPSEC and COMSEC than the DNC had.

38 Trump electors would have to flip. Someone has a spreadsheet with all of the Electors' names, addresses, jobs, families, public social media links. There are biographies, profiles, the secrets.

They would look for those close to Romney and the NeverTrumpers first. A PAC at arm's length from Clinton does the work.

It would be legal to approach and attempt to persuade. It would be legal to promise jobs in a Clinton administration, to Electors or their associates.

On the dark side, bribes and blackmail are possible. Nothing would surprise me this year.

Jeff Roby

I am a Green Party member, and proud of it. That said, I am embarrassed no end by Jill Stein's move to challenge in 3 states. She did so despite the Green Party National Committee having voted against such a move, and it even being (reportedly) opposed by Ajamu Baraka, Stein's running mate.

Despite some fancy verbal footwork about electoral integrity, it is patently a move by some Greens to put Hillary in the White House. Stein has caved in to the hysteria generated by the liberal Democrats who are trying to pin Hillary's loss on the Green Party, a la Nader, and a chance to grab some cash.

At first, she put out that any funds raised in excess of those used for recount would be used to campaign for "electoral integrity." That was apparently improper. Now she states, "I will do a recount in any state where the deadline has not passed. Help my staff find state deadlines," thus setting in motion a recount train with no end. The appeal itself is ridiculous, as she is hiring high-powered lawyers for all this, but seems to be designed to mollify outraged Greens, that her purpose is NOT to elect Hillary.

What happens when people start asking for their money back? What happens when Trump's lawyers starts digging into the donor's list (is that a matter of public record?).

All I can say is, don't blame the Green Party. This is the action of a renegade clique which is flouting its own party, the apparent brainchild of David Cobb, the mastermind of the Green Party "safe-states" strategy which calls for NOT running in races where the Green Party could harm the prospects of a Democrat.

Sorry, folks. What the hell do you think an independent party is for?

Peter Reichard

Trump will take the oath of office, his enemies are grasping at straws. The recount needs to flip all three states, highly unlikely, and will prove to be a good thing as it will reassure the public that the election was fair. For Hillary to win when the Electoral College meets requires that 37 renegade Republican electors out of 306 vote for her. Ain't gonna happen.
On the other hand the Washington Post "fake news" article represents the first shot in a new war by the Operation Mockingbird pseudo Fourth Estate against the real Fourth Estate,the alt media blogs, which include this forum as well as the named Blacklisted News, Liberty Blitzkrieg, Consortium News, Moon of Alabama and Zero Hedge among others. This incipient censorship movement is an extremely dangerous threat to freedom of the press.


[laughing] Ah see B'rer Podesta has thrown B'rer Trump in de briar patch. All these creatures coming out to attack reminds me of that scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" when they're opening the ark and Indy tells Marion, "Shut your eyes! Don't look!"

I think that's good advice for the present situation. This is the time to clean the garage and do other chores that have been put off.

As for what the undead are doing on the other side of the Atlantic -- I saw a quote from John Major. Something to the effect, 'We must not give in to the tyranny of the majority.'

It's going to be a long winter.

Former 11B

The problem is, the Media lost its credibility. Any attempt to deny Trump now will result in a civil war. Fortunately no one will listen to the WP or the NYT. Those idiots still don't get it.


There is something rich in irony in this electoral and post electoral process. For many years we have read that Islam needed a Reformation and now Capitalism is in the very process of Reformation. Trump has preached a return to the great America, something like a return to the roots of Christianity. The Capitalist Church, all system of thought and action has a religious content, is corrupt and inefficient, let's drain its swamp. May the Clinton Foundation be compared to the Renaissance papal court with its pay for indulgences and now pay to play? It is said that the invention of the printing press made the instruction of the masses possible and the masses rebelled against the religious order. Now the internet offers us a superior and instantaneous mechanism of information.
There is now a list of Fake News sources. Will a list of Index of Blogorum Prohibitorum be far behind? And a new council that will attempt to reform the corrupt system? I leave that to the imagination.

Eric Newhill

Proving a negative? Are you a graduate of the Rumsfeld Skool of Logic? And when did you stop beating your wife anyhow?

Pathetic desperation



You don't really expect anyone to prove that Russia DID NOT tamper with the election, do you? Surely you don't mean that. pl


On the recount/faithless electors fronts, they are wasting their time and energy. Let them do it.

The WaPo story is just part of the inevitable attempt to deligitimise the election result. We saw the same thing with Brexit - nonsense stories about a supposed spike in hate crimes (some were hoaxes, most were common or garden English hooliganism). The idea was to paint all Leavers as racists.



IMO most of the "counterattack" discussions center on the mindless attack on the electoral college system. It seems that a lot of Americans have never read the constitution and do not understand that although the mechanism exists for amendment of the US Constitution the achievement of something like this is beyond the reach of the big states and their megacities. The electoral college system is embedded in detail in Article 2 and the 12th Amendment. This system was created to prevent the domination of the small states by the larger. Without the electoral college and the Great Compromise the US Constitution would not have been agreed to by the smaller states. The US Constitution contains what amounts to a "dead man's switch" that was created to ensure the viability of the constituent states as states rather than administrative districts like French departments. That "switch" is the requirement that 38 states, as states, approve a change to the constitution for it to become effective. That means that in the approval of amendments, Rhode Island and California have the same weight. Now I ask you, pilgrims, what is the chance that 38 of the smaller states are going to give their assent to amendments that lessen their autonomy and power? As someone said here earlier, the electoral college is the essence of The Union. So, fugget abowd it! pl


The Swamp remains the Swamp; alligators might be replaced by pythons, the panther by the jaguar; Trump appointees so far are representative of the Swamp.

James Loughton

1) The MSM is concerned that their monopoly on the fake news market is coming to and end.

2) The MSM is terrified that their ability to edit out real news that does not support their agreed narratives is being challenged.

3) laissez le bon temps rouler.


>>what is the chance that 38 of the smaller states are going to give their assent to amendments that lessen their autonomy and power?

Well, they did agree to the 17th amendment ...

Seamus Padraig

It's pretty clear that RT, Sputnik and other Russian sources favored Trump over Hillary, but it is also equally clear that the vast majority of MSM sources in the West heavily favored Hillary over Trump. Why is it only called 'propaganda' when the other side does it?

David Habakkuk


The propaganda campaign which mattered in this election was the one accurately described in the account of why Trump won by the inimitable Fred Reed:

(See http://www.unz.com/freed/uniquely-talented/ .)

‘Interestingly, his critics have no slight idea why he won. The reason is obvious: He won because everybody was campaigning for him, in particular the media, Hillary, Black Lives Matter, Obama, Democrats, and far leftists. Everybody worked for Trump. He couldn’t lose.

‘The election was a referendum on Marie Antoinette’s court.’

Perhaps someone needs to update the classic study of ‘Propaganda’ by Bernays with a new concluding chapter: ‘The Art of the Own Goal.’


This entire episode is a big fraud. Here is as good a take down of the WAPO article, and the entire Dem/Bezos establishment as your going to see.


Seamus Padraig

I know exactly how you feel, Jeff. I also voted for Stein, but I am outraged at this high-handed decision of hers. Dammit, if I had wanted Hillary to be president, I would have voted for her, not Stein. This is just pathetic--beyond farce.


I think what most Americans are seeing is/was Turkey (the kind ya eat), Family, college students home, Pro and College Football, albeit down for the former, but still mighty. And now it is on to winter and the Holiday Season. I think that is what the vast majority of Americans, sans intellectuals (that is not meant to be pejorative) and media types anxious to keep the political ratings on cable and in print up. This dynamic will be so, in fact intensify, as Christmas draws closer. Now if it ever truly comes to something, then there will be hell to pay to whomever tries to change this election. But till then, a very limited impact.

Eric Newhill

When you have gotten someone to hold diametrically opposing beliefs, you own their minds (e.g. we are rioting in the streets because Trump is a fascist that doesn't respect democracy, we hate religious bigots that bash on women and gays/we love Islam). That is the essence of brainwashing.

The learned helplessness is increased by 1) changing what is acceptable think often 2) getting them to overlook history - even recent history - and your own glaring contradictions (e.g. Trump is dangerous for not vowing to accept election results, but now I don't accept election results and I am good). When all of this is operating without question, you own them. Own them.



Popular election of the two US Senators within each state does not diminish the autonomy of the states. If an amendment had been proposed to give the states a number of senators based on population you would have seen a very different result in the ratification process. pl


Was surprised at some of the sites on the list e.g. nutritionfacts.org. Perhaps the Propornot folks worried about their precious bodily fluids - https://twitter.com/Tosk59/status/802900828348678144

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