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22 November 2016

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Jay

When Broadway starts partitioning for the reduction of gang violence in low income neighborhoods. Then maybe I'll listen to their chosen political pleas.

kao_hsien_chih

I think Origin has given us, and I mean this sincerely and respectfully, why we must rant and ramble and, hopefully have an audience to whom we can rant and ramble freely, within limits of proper decorum. Prepared, rehearsed, and polished expressions reveal very little of "us," the people, although they may show that we have done our "homework," which often, look the same.

I think there are two aspects to the controversy surrounding Hamilton. Like you, I thought both the cast and Pence did the right thing. However, people can and do have opinions, independent of how power should be exercised, and I don't think it is healthy as a society to insist that those opinions and sentiments don't exist so that they fester. I don't have to agree with those sentiments, but I sure do want to know what opinions are out there that I may not even be aware of, let alone agree or disagree with, and how the people who hold them arrived at those opinions. The caveat, though, is that because the internet has gotten so crowded, it is difficult to find opinions that you don't know of and the thoughts behind those opinions unless you try very hard to dig them up.

Lemur


"Liberals believe that their nation states are associations formed by individuals for the purpose of ensuring their natural right to life, liberty, and happiness. They have an imaginary view of their liberal states as associations created by isolated individuals reaching a covenant, a contract or agreement, amongst themselves in abstraction from any prior community. They have a predilection to whitewash the fact that their liberal states, like all states, were forcibly created by a people with a common language, heritage, racial characteristics, religious traditions, and a sense of territorial acquisition involving the derogation of out-groups."

This was precisely the case in the founding of the United States. The Anglo-Celtic nation of the New World constituted themselves as a particular people according to the articles of the Constitution. Plato and Montesquieu, NOT Locke, were the main influences. Republics are always particular, rather than universal. The People Preceded the Proposition.

Until 1965, most of the US population came from Northern Europe, and those who didn't were ruthlessly assimilated according to WASPish norms. Likewise the Black population came from a small sector of West Africa - hardly the melting pot meme dreamed up by some Jew in London in the twenties.

"Ultimately, over the 151 years since that conflict ended, the American People have made great progress toward forming a society under a mostly ethno-neutral...polity.' It's a complete non-sequitor to go from 'the blacks had it tough, and so we straightened that out' to 'America should be an ethno-neutral country. That's ahistoical nonsense, a retrospective end of history fever dream. America is now a domain of tribal competition thanks to the open borders efforts of oligarchs and leftists with a sick obsession with the other and a hatred of their own traditions. Diversity + proximity always leads to conflict. Here's the studies which point to where the United State is headed. Trump's just the beginning, and Bannon (who is only a white nationalist in the imaginations of Mother Jones types) are mere avatars of the social changes liberal ideology itself installed. And the research is on on the consequences... https://heartiste.wordpress.com/diversity-proximity-war-the-reference-list/

Liberalism of course is the true 'easy ideology'. Everyone is placed in little boxes - abstract units of production, consumption, and 'self realization - where the ruling zeitgeist is 'do as thou wilt' with the parameters of the harm principle. But actually conserving the traditions of a spiritual organic community against the globalizing forces of dissolution - that is the hard choice. Actually generating and aspiring to something greater than a value neutral post-modernism poz-fest requires concerted effort. Liberalism is a contract with mediocrity that protects its practitioners from ever being more than political children.

By contrast, 'the wonderful mosaic of diversity' is a series of decontextualized exotic cultural stimuli our bored last men and women amuse themselves with. The liberal state is ultimately the enemy of any true diversity, because the liberal state ethos leads to differentiation without difference.

No more. As the National Front tweeted after Trump won, “Their world is collapsing, ours is being built.” The epoch of dissolution is over. The age of a new nationalism has begun.

Valissa

Origin,

I recently came across this VERY LONG essay by a liberal psychiatrist (at Moon of Alabama, and have seen rec'd at other blogs as well), who is devotedly anti-Trump and thinks he would make a bad president, but he does not think he is a racist or white nationalist ("any more than any other 70 year old white man"). When you read the article I think you will be surprised at how incredibly small the following of such groups are. Apparently this psychiatrist was motivated to do all this research and share it because he had some suicidal patients come to him after the election, due to the election results and felt a strong need to provide knowledge to fight the fear.

You Are Still Crying Wolf http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/

There have been many articles in the MSM about the fact that Trump did not win because he got more white voters than Romney, he actually got more Black, Latino and Asian voters than Romney. That combined with the 3rd party voters and many Dems sitting at home is what won him the election.

Like many liberals I think you make the mistake of taking Trump (and Bannon)literally. He is trash talking on purpose, provocatively surfing the anti-political correctness wave to reach people at a different and more visceral level. This verbal WWF strategy worked for him to get him elected. Bannon is a key part of this "Fight Club" strategy; they're tapping into the anger and assuming that many in the so-called minority groups are angry too and will join them. Yes, they really think this and they did get more minority voters. I posted two articles about him in The Democratic Party of 2017 post. And I think they are right.

BTW, my black sister-in-law voted for Trump (in Monmouth County NJ, no less!). She told me that in her opinion he talked to everyone the same, and she was tired of the Democrats with their racist faux-black speech trying to bond with the black community. She's angry at the establishment for various reasons, including the economy, and one of them is taking advantage of the black vote while doing nothing for the black community. Her angry vote went to Trump; Hillary represented the establishment that was scorned.

The question is, what can Trump get away with as president and will it help or hurt the goals he is starting to set? Because he's going to push the envelope to accomplish what he thinks is important. He has started to set out political goals for his administration. What will he risk to achieve them? Can he transition from the pugilistic campaign speaking style and his twitter wars that you and so many find distasteful to something more "seemly" or "presidential?" Or will he continue what he's doing now and alternate acting more presidential with duking it out in a public sandbox on occasion? Maybe it's just a way for him to let off steam. He's certainly breaking lots of unwritten rules, and lots of folks are enjoying that.

b

@Origin
"White nationalism’s fundamental premise is that our nation should allow the creation of “Euro-ethnic” enclaves as a matter of “freedom” for those who hold a “white Euro-ethnic” identity."
No - the point of white nationalism is to put all OTHERS into enclaves and have the whites have all the rest of it. Do the "whites" want to lay a pipeline, by force, through tribal land or the tribals through a white enclave?

"Our culture has moved from slavery in the 1600s to racial integration and acceptance of gay marriage."

What are you smoking? That is wishful thinking. How many blacks are in prison just for smoking something? How many whites? How many, outside the coastal elites, really accept gay marriage?

"Where else but in America can the People have a direct, unfiltered conversation with a newly elected leader?"

Well, lots of states in Europe in Europe, in Asia, Africa and South America come to mind. You really believe the U.S. is THE vessel of enlightenment? Go travel. It is far from it. And where did you get that "conversation"? Do you really think Trump reads any of those tweets directed at him. When would he even do that?

Trump simply CREATED the Hamilton affair when headlines crept about his $25 mill settlement payment to Trump University victims. He planted a diversion like he always does. It worked like a charm. Within four hours news about Hamilton was beating news about Trump-U by a factor of 4 to 1 in all major media. Trump-U was a major fraud committed on poor people. A real scandal. Hamilton was just some east-coast nonsense which, given that the musical is mostly a very elite, one-sided whitewashing of history, will bring him even more support from his voters.
This was such an obvious fake scandal one really wonders how any media would fall for it.

Balint Somkuti, Phd

Origin
With all respect I think you dont understand the meaning and the background of these simbolic events such as Brexit, President-elect Trump and to you of lesser importance but for us Eastern-Europeans big issues like Hungary's not so new and Poland's new govts' efforts against Brussels, or an ever strengthening Visegrad 4 (V4) cooperation etc.

This is not alt-right, populism, or demagoguery. This simply the revolt of normality against abnormality.

If you say new-nationalism I say yes, since unlike the old it is not aimed against ALL other nations. Its main adversary is internationalism.

Bobo

Good Morning Origin
Mike Pence took his family to a Broadway play at great expense to see the acclaimed play Hamilton. He received a less than stellar reception- not the first and not the last- and sat to enjoy the play. As per his security detail he left quickly at the end but stood and listened to the rant as a gentleman. The rant could have been delivered to him in writing but it was not . Personally I felt bad that he had to go through this with his family by his side. Have They No Decency Sir.
The message from the Trump future administration is We Are All Americans. We solve problems together but create problems when we are not together.
Twitter and Tweets are mindless trivia which is how I take them but then I'm getting to the age where others may call me an old man.
Thank you for the opportunity to respond.

LeeG

Re. Yesterday' Trump berating network bosses for being liars and unkind to the golden child liar. Maybe he can line up other professionals in science, engineering, industry, military, academia etc and give them the emperors decree on how things should be.

The Twisted Genius

Jay, haven't you heard of "West Side Story?"

Peter Reichard

"We have an honored guest with us, the Vice-President Elect. Many in this city and audience including myself were disappointed in the results of the election but it has been fairly decided. We have a diverse nation that includes not only the cast of this play but also conservative White men from Indiana as well, this is what makes America great. After all, e. pluribus unum. So in the spirit of unity and reconciliation I dedicate my performance tonight to you Mr. Pence."

turcopolier

Peter Reichard

What is it that you are quoting? pl

LeaNder

b, you are only the occasional guest around here, due to the time needed for your own blog. Full discovery, and no harm meant to Origin, I didn't manage to finish reading his long contribution.

Do you really think Trump reads any of those tweets directed at him. When would he even do that?

No, I would not assume that too, he surely can afford staff for those matters. But why not take a look occasionally or indeed, however hard to believe, write a comment himself? ...

Trump simply CREATED the Hamilton affair when headlines crept about his $25 mill settlement payment to Trump University victims.

I both agree and disagree.
Agree: consumer's are often lured into traps by being offered dreams...
Disagree: I do not have the least idea about the precise genesis of the Trump university. ... Are you 100% sure, Trump wasn't himself at least somewhat lured into the idea of profiting of his name or VIP status. Some people were interested in using his name? In Communication and Marketing VIP's are a very, very central tool. And the crowd usually flows to success.

LeaNder

sorry, got the plural versus genitive case wrong. The 'bloody' apostrophe!!! German - English switch didn't work satisfactorily. ;)

The very, very best to my former neighbors in London, not all, but surely some of them. Among them a former class-mate and an SST member.

Gone for a while

Origin

Lemur you must not know many liberals, or perhaps better now called, the Coasters. Few have any knowledge of the philosophers. What they do know is that they live in peaceable, diverse communities including all stripes of people. They love the milieu and they are prospering financially. I don't want to be overly harsh, but if you are not prospering, move or learn to run robots. There are lots of open jobs in the Coaster areas.

Also, the world is not collapsing. Quite the opposite. It is just that for some here, it seems to be collapsing. If there is any tendency toward collapse of the ES, that tendency will be encouraged by the emergency of white nationalism here. If there is disruption here, the world will simply pass us by as the baton or progress and prosperity passes to China or maybe Europe.

As the US rejects globalism, GM and the other rust belt enterprises will simply pull up stakes and move to Mexico where they can employ competitively priced labor enjoy free trade with the globe.

Today, Europe announced it was forming its own "Pentagon" for a unified EU defense force and Mexico, China, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia, South Korea, Thailand, and more are meeting to establish a Pacific free trade zone under China's leadership. The general idea is screw the US, we are bigger and we don't need it.

If you want to prosper, move to the coast and adopt Coaster ideas. White Nationalism is a dead-end street. While Trump "won", the rust belt lost. Trump did win. He is a seasoned globalist and if things get bad, he will just relocate his enterprises to wherever the most profit lies. This week it appears he was lobbying the president of a South American government to approve a new hotel for him.

Origin

Proof is in the taste of the pudding. This morning discourse from all corners of the political spectrum has shown up; wonderful.

Unfortunately, Trump continues to fail the Freedom Test. His spectacle on Twitter today is quite informative as he conditions his followers to abhor the free press. He said he cancelled his meeting with the principals at the New York time because he did not like their terms. I don't know what the NYT demanded, but I would hope they wanted the meeting to be on the record and Trump wanted to keep it secret.

The Beaver

@ Origin

FYI:
"Parscale is one of the few within Trump’s crew entrusted to tweet on his behalf."

From: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-27/inside-the-trump-bunker-with-12-days-to-go

kooshy

All

Report of Trumps' yesterday off the record meeting with MSM, very interesting.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/21/donald-trumps-media-summit-was-a-f-ing-firing-squad/

“Trump started with [CNN chief] Jeff Zucker and said, ‘I hate your network, everyone at CNN is a liar and you should be ashamed,’ ” the source said."

Babak Makkinejad

In my opinion, the system of National Socialism, had it not attacked USSR, would still be with us today. In fact, given the rise of China and the Rest, a Fortress West led by Germany could have been an attractive option for many in Europe.

Tyler

Origin,

"Free press".

You're killing me here. There's no free press in the US MSM. There's a bunch of liars who were openly colluding with HRC to push a narrative and try to get her elected.

Stop with the false piety about "muh sacred free speech" from the people who insisting Trump is a Hitler-Stalin in league with Russia (but also going to start a hot war with them). The MSM whored out the cachet of their reputation in the name of their ideology, and no amount of apologia from you can change that.

Tyler

Kooshy,

Good.

Tyler

Origin,

Yeah, I can't get worked up over this when the Left is trying to put people in prison for not wanting to bake cakes for gay "weddings".

Or that the Hamilton actor who made an ass out of himself made a lot of commentary on Twitter regarding raping drunk white women.

ex-PFC Chuck

Ron Paul's website passes along the work of someone who has combed through the Wikileaks and identified specific MSM journalists who collaborated with the Clinton campaign.
http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/revealed-the-real-fake-news-list

Origin

Tyler, you are doing free press here.

This blog has more coverage than lots of print papers. I disagree with you on many levels, yet I push the "Publish Button" so you can speak to the world. I believe discussion proves-up ideas that get sifted in the discourse. In fact, you have taught me a lot through your posts.

Were we in Turkey, Egypt, China, or a majority of the other countries in the world, either you or I would risk going to jail.

As for your criticisms of the MSM, it has the right to express its values, be for the candidates it prefers, and diss the others with impunity. There is no law or rules that says it has to be fair, honest, or truthful. Of course they wanted HC elected because they were well familiar with Trump and thought him a bad choice for the country. The whole purpose of a press is to persuade the readers to the outlet's viewpoint. The rule that there is no rule for speech is what has made our country great and mostly well run.

Trump is trying to suppress free speech with bombast, intimidation, and legal actions so that he can control what people see of him. His tactic is to intimidate and sue those who diss him and hide his shenanigans like his oligarchical self dealing with his companies while in the national spotlight.

How can you support such a man, you, who so eloquently, but misguidedly, perform free speech for the world? Such people want to shut us all up.

Trump Tweets tell it all. Examine their assumptions and logic with common sense. Believe him in what he says! Examine the consequences if he gets what he wants, a totally docile press. If he beats down the press, people like you will never know how badly they have been deceived and taken.

Thanks for participating. I enjoy contending with you.

Ishmael Zechariah

LeeG,
Do you deny that the network bosses are consummate liars, abominable propagandists and fully-bought shills? They really bet on the wrong horse, they doubled and tripled their bets, and they lost. Now someone is calling the bet. What is wrong with that?
Ishmael Zechariah
P.s: Scott Adams on Trump's win
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153480921421/persuasion-versus-populism

Origin

There is no reason MSM journalists should not collaborate. Like Presidents Elect, MSM journalists have a right to free speech.

Outlets have a right to take sides and express their views in public and private regardless of their slant. That is their role in this Republic.

Trump got secret previews of some of his questions from his friends in the press too. That is what free press and freedom of speech is all about; trying to advantage those who you agree with. Anyone who believes MSM news outlets are neutral or fair is uninformed and naïve.

Celebrate the disorderliness of it all. It is good!

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