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21 November 2016

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GulfCoastPirate

Sam Peralta wrote:

'But...the MMT folks will be here soon to tell you that the coastals are suckers. '


If you have a coherent argument to make against the MMT people then make it; otherwise, what you write is complete nonsense since that is not what MMT is all about.

GulfCoastPirate

Valissa wrote:

'When any challenge to the prevailing liberal doctrine, cast under the wrong light, can forever cast one as a “racist,” those with dissenting opinions are left with only two options: concede, or retaliate. Trump appealed to the latter by forming the populist right-wing counterpart to the left’s stubborn ethos.'


And now the people who voted for him are going to see their lives get worse. Much, much worse. It's like they cut off their foot to stop a scratch that was bleeding on their arm. Do you consider that an appropriate response to anything?

Jack

"If the critics are right"

Pitch Pole, you buying the same bridge that the critics sold before the election?

GulfCoastPirate

Bill Wade wrote:

'Try to find some jobs for inner-city young African Americans, a lot smarter than giving them a cell phone.'

What jobs would you give them?

'Stop promoting "Gay Culture" so heavily, people that don't like it notice and then like it even less so.'

Who is promoting anything of the sort? They have constitutional rights given to them by the courts. Do you propose we take those away because you don't like them having rights?


'Don't make people like me lose just shy of 10% of their fixed income over a period of 8 years (the last 8, that is).'

You were lucky you only lost 10%. If Romney had been elected you would have lost a lot more. Where did you learn your economics?

'Tell your buddies in the MSM to stop marginalizing good people like Ron Paul. Dems need to understand, the more you marginalize people, the more we start to like them. Witness President elect Trump.'


I live in what used to be his district. The man is an embarrassment so don't lecture me about his stupidity

'A lot of "deplorable" have served in the military in real 3rd world countries, we DO NOT want to be 3rd worlders.'

I was in the military myself. If you don't want to be or live like a third worlder then act like it. Trump said during the campaign your wages would have to go down so you can compete with the third world. DO you not understand what that means or did you not listen?

GulfCoastPirate

jerseycityjoan wrote:

'I feel very alienated from the party -- because the Democratic Party moved away from me.'


I agree

Tyler

Pitch Pole,

The same critics who:

- said he wouldn't make it past Iowa
- said he wouldn't make it past SC
- said he wouldn't make it past the primaries
- said he wouldn't win the nomination
- said he'd flame out in the general
- said he'd get crushed in the debates
- said he wasn't serious about winning
- said he couldn't beat Hillary
- said he wouldn't win the electoral college
- said he couldn't win Pennsylvania
- said he wouldn't win the Presidency

Yeah, tell me more about the predictions of these critics who haven't been right since he announced his candidacy. Usually, in most societies, people who have been as wrong as often as your 'critics' would retire from the public in shame.

At this point, I want them to say "He won't put colonies on the moon" so I can claim 500 moonbux from GCP when I post from the Luna-1 colony. That's literally how wrong they have been.

Tyler

Marcus,

I heard this line before the election. I'm hearing it after the election.

Good luck as you and the rest of the Left continue to lose your elections. I'm sure the emerging majority of bisexual transgender illegal alien muslim transsexuals will be the coalition that brings you back from the wilds.

Tyler

Kao,

It really isn't.

Tyler

Origin,

I am glad to see I feature heavily in your fanfiction.

Pitch Pole

Ty - I'm using the time tested technique of listening to the words that come out of his mouth and evaluating them as they may relate to actions he may actually take. Of course, since what he says changes moment to moment, who the hell knows? If listening to his words and judging him, if that is argument by assertion, sure you go with that. For you point #1, why he cleared out Christie and his lobbyists is open to interpretation - undoubtedly it has a hell of a lot more to do with Christie's disloyalty after pussygate and his son in law's dear old dad's jail time than some anti lobbyist instinct. Trump as principled crusader against corruption is hilarious on so many levels. The rest of our points make that first whopper look almost logical by contrast.

If the people such as myself are arguing by assertion, then you're arguing by delusion, the delusion that you have any idea at all what he stands for or what he might do. You don't unless you can hold every side of every position and square the circle of his campaign rhetoric with what he says now. It is going to be entertaining watching the various factions of the republican party and the new administration eat each other alive, not to mention his supporters tear their hair out as all the promises go by the way.

And to be clear, I didn't do anything in the last election except cast my vote for what I viewed as the lesser of two evils. I'm firmly a groucho marxist and wouldn't join either party. I'd love for a party somewhere that would make my vote more than the choice between two evils - the only thing that makes the democrats stink less are the republicans, the only things that make either major party vaguely acceptable are the general insanity of the minor parties.

GulfCoastPirate

Indeed. Nice job.

GulfCoastPirate

turcopolier wrote:

'Heather McGhee on MJ today insisted that the multi culti is the majority and that nothing should change in the Democratic Party. Do you agree with that? '

I don't know who that person is but no I do not agree.

'OTOH Trump is looking and sounding more and more like a man who was as much of an unreliable liar as HC. Will the NDs remain loyal to Trump if he fails them? Would that signal the end of the Republic as you multi culti folks and the NDs continue to draw apart?'

That is what i am wondering when I ask my questions.

Origin

I do not think the Democrats or the left are enamored with centralized power. They are involved deeply in all levels of government from the tiniest town to the federal government.

You should understand that the US is not a unitary government. It is already quite decentralized. The states are each real "states" with their own authority and scope of jurisdiction and govern almost all elements of day to day life. The states raise their own taxes, and are responsible for the roads, police, regulation of commerce, schools, zoning, construction codes, public health, courts, and numerous other functions. The states are further divided into counties and cities and each of those levels have substantial power and responsibilities as subdivisions of the states exercising state powers under local control. To some degree, the overall government is too decentralized and the lack of uniformity across the continent often causes problems.

The federal government is responsible for defense and interstate commerce and the federal court system that is in place to manage interstate disputes and national laws. The federal government also promotes uniform local and state laws through a complex web of financial subsidies.

Thirdeye

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/how-democrats-killed-their-populist-soul/504710/

Interesting background reading on the vengeful purge of the old Labor Democrats by identitarian left-liberals that came to fruition in the 1970s.

TonyL

"Give it some time. The Deplorables will eventually wake up, but it may be too late for them."

Exactly what I think. It will not take long.

jonst

they (the leadership, and their core supporters, as opposed to the base) can't "focus on economic issues" for the simple reason, as a general rule they embrace the NeoLiberal paradigm/s that governs economics in this nation. (world?)

This is, I would argue, precisely the reason they don't want to "focus" on economic issues. And with R2Pers driving the wagon on, many, not all, but many geopolitical issues, they are not too keen to focus on those issues either. Since they sound like more involvement in Syria and places near the Russian border. They got the cultural issues...and they run with them. Win or lose. They run with them.

turcopolier

Origin

I think it is fair to the committee to clear up who you are, roughly. A retired White lawyer who lives in a large metropolitan area of the American South. Right? I am curious as to where you were reared. Country or city? pl

Tyler

PP,

You are not evaluating anything. You are pushing a narrative contrary to the available facts. Your entire narrative rant here is a total showcase of the three principals of progressives:

- Progs always lie
- Progs always project
- Progs always double down

As we can see, its you lying about your intentions and what you see, its you projecting ("delusional") and its you doubling down on the other nonsense before. The facts are obvious, but you remain resistant because your paradigm is so damn limited and you're tunneling yourself deeper into your bubble.

Tyler

GCP,

LOL this kind of "me tooism" cost you $500 last time. Keep it up.

Valissa

GCP,

Based on the evidence, I see nothing that convinces me that the "people who voted for him are going to see their lives get worse. Much, much worse." The same thing could have happened under a Hillary presidency... or not. There really is no way to know or predict these things. Events and history will unfold and we will see. Some geopolitical types don't think that presidents matter that much and that greater historical forces are at work that push events. I do not know if that's true or not, but the argument has some merit.

By nature I'm not a moralizer and in general I don't believe in judging other's responses as appropriate or inappropriate (I'm more likely to say I like or dislike other's responses). I think everyone has the right to their own opinions based on their own worldview whether I agree with them or not. I prefer discussing and debating based on facts and knowledge, not emotionalism, which means I often avoid political discussions in real life. Based on the facts as I see them, I would say that I think it's the MSM and liberal highly propagandized and hysterical response to Trump that's "inappropriate."

But I still respect your right to hate Trump and think he'll be no good for others and repeatedly lecture people who disagree with you in a condescending fashion. In fact you remind me of one of my dear liberal male friends (white, retired engineer) who speaks much like you. I tend to avoid discussing politics with him, or change the topic when he does. Because he is so locked in to his dualistic Liberal worldview it took him a few years to grok that I did not stop being a Democrat to suddenly become a secret Republican. Now he finally gets a little bit why I'm a 3rd party voter and that I have moved "outside" the standard two-party good vs evil worldview.

I consider this a fact... no one knows what will happen with the Trump presidency. Although there is no way to know exactly what Hillary would have done either, she has been in the public eye politically for a long time and has many known positions and allegiances within the establishment so predicting her behavior as president would be a little easier. Even so I would be hesitant to do so. I prefer to wait and observe first.


Pitch Pole

Clearly I'm not getting through, so for one last time: I'm not talking about critics, I'm not talking about voters, I'm not talking about media. I'm referencing what Donald J Trump said just yesterday. Since we're talking words, which apparently are worthless when judging Trump, you get some benefit of the doubt.

There's a long list of promises there, from bringing back good paying manufacturing jobs, coal jobs, prosecuting the clintons, Muslim ban, great wall of mexico paid for by mexicans, turning out the financial insiders, repealing the ACA, replacing the ACA with something much better and lower cost, ... there's lots more. We'll see - if his administration doesn't produce what was promised, can we expect some crow eating?

If there is a Luna-1 colony, I'll happily buy you a drink at the Earth View tap room....

Pitch Pole

I'll be the first to admit I was shocked he won. I don't think it was the critics, the media or the pollsters - everyone was shocked, including at least some in his campaign. My shock was in spite of the fact that HRC was the perfect avatar of the moneyed, entitled, bubble-living parasitic interests that vast majority the country wants to see pushed down an elevator shaft. The dems couldn't have chosen a candidate with a chance to lose a layup election better on that basis...

But as I've been saying repeatedly, when the critics or the media or the electromagnetic radiation transmitting his image from an interview broadcast what the man himself is saying, and that is significantly different from what he promised before the election, it's not a bridge I bought. A lot of people who voted for him didn't take a lot of what he said seriously; but all of what he said and all of those who voted for him? Like I said, not my bridge...

Pitch Pole

Horses: Dangerous on both ends and tricky in the middle.

turcopolier

Pitch Pole

Dear old Dad said that each trooper carried a bag of salt with which to salt down the horse meat if they had to shoot one in the field. He clearly relished the thought. pl

Tyler

HCG,

Nice fanfiction, but as a prediction of what a man who's been president elect for two weeks now is going to do, its more of a fever dream combined with wishful thinking.

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