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21 November 2016


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The fact that you talk about descending to the level of the Noble Deplorables is symptomatic of the Democratic Party's problem with the NDs. Your assumption of superiority as a Right Thinker is a bad sign of what will probably continue. Heather McGhee on MJ today insisted that the multi culti is the majority and that nothing should change in the Democratic Party. Do you agree with that? OTOH Trump is looking and sounding more and more like a man who was as much of an unreliable liar as HC. Will the NDs remain loyal to Trump if he fails them? Would that signal the end of the Republic as you multi culti folks and the NDs continue to draw apart? pl


Pitch Pole,

Lol, he's not "walking back" anything. I see this meme being pushed hard by CTR shills and swallowed by people who believe a dishonest media claiming NIKKI HALEY as an SOS candidate has an inside track to what's going on.

Any port in a storm for some of you I guess. Someone will be disappointed, but not who you think.


This thread is great cause the people who buried their heads in the sand regarding Trump's victory are now getting themselves into that sand up to the waist with broad pronouncements regarding the next four years of a man who hasn't even been sworn in yet. Some of you are doing your damndest to have learned absolutely nothing from this election from a young buck such as myself.

Its going to be a long four years for some of you, indeed.



I think we are inventing a new term for the "Left": Coasters.
We still do not have a term for the others, those left behind by technology and globalism now feeling powerless and who refuse to accept the changes going on around the globe and who are not willing to stretch into a new milieu. Perhaps, the "FlownOvers", the "Right Behind", or something else?

As for whether the "Lefties" population majority want a devolution to the States, I doubt it. They are a majority greatly disadvantaged by the electoral college and would probably wish to end it.

Babak Makkinejad

Really really ironic; Rorty is admitting that there is an Objective Reality and that one can make meaningful statements about it as well as use such statements to formulate thoughts on how to change that Objective Reality.

Was he practicing his "ironism" when he wrote those lines?


One of the economic problems with the Flyover territory is that its economy is based upon resources. Resource economies have a way of disfavoring the masses and concentrating the wealth in the few. The food stuffs, energy, and raw materials in the Flyover territories are mostly owned and controlled from the coasts, if not directly, then through the financing of production. The profits do not go to the farmers, but to the bankers, brokers and commodities traders. Big Ag is so concentrated it stifles the producers and pays them just enough to keep their capital employed. It is run from the coasts. Yes, that movement of resource wealth does subsidize the coast. Its the profits, not the government transfers that do it.

As for "the great manufacturing facilities" sitting idle near the coast, those are idle because they are obsolete and can never be useful again. It is cheaper to just let them sit and decay than to dismantle them. The productivity of the Coasters is in the minds of those occupying the studios and office towers and running the distant robots. That is the "manufacturing" of today and it also who creates huge demands for services in the midst of the creators and manipulators.

Those people in the crowded cities do not need to wake up to realize what keeps them going, they know. It is their wily creativity, conniving, and spunk. While some in the cities are also left behind poor, most are having a great time making money and enjoying their friends. Even the urban "ghettos" are vibrant under the surface.

Take a trip to a city and see it yourself. I have been to the flyover territory in the North and you are right, it seems grim and sad. If you don't like the dreariness, move to the sunny urban South. There are good jobs here if you have skills.

Norbert M. Salamon

The Cities' argument is vacuous, as exhibited by a study of the ecological footprint of London [UK] which indicated that the 90% total output of the rest of the country is required to keep London functioning, thereby leaving insufficient goods, energy for the country-side of survive.

So we can look on the so called subsidy of the likes of Manhattan etc. to the flyover country as partial payment for the supply of food, energy, water , building supplies, garbage disposal service, etc.

IN OTHER WORDFS Democratic areas of the recent election survive ONLY due to the goods and services provided by the republican areas.


I propose UHaul 2 Anywhere internal visa vouchers to give those in the Flyover territories a free ride to opportunity in a more prosperous part of the country. That might reduce the need for H1B visas. After a while, some of the migrants who have gained new creativity and exposure to the wonders of diversity will return to their old home and reinvigorate the communities they left. Sort of a reverse Homestead Act.


Ms. Nancy deserves to be retired -- she can move in with Hillary, Madeleine Notsobright and the other girls who deserve better. Unfortunately, FrontPage is in the same category as the Onion, only its ring master, David Horowitz, doesn't realize it.


The Dems should learn from the Repubs years in the wilderness. You need better propagandists and rabble rousers. Where are the "talking points" groups, Rush Limbaughs, and Steve Bannons of the left? They have to start acting like a minority party.

This will be a race against time for Trump. Will a trillion dollars in infrastructure be enough to placate los deplorables? Maybe for 4 years. But the damage is done, the next infusion of subsidies should be education and entrepreneurial incentives but this is a much longer term play that is probably beyond most politicians interest. Other than that maybe luggage and Uhaul's to move closer to service jobs in urban areas. Let's not confuse the deplorables with farmers either. Farming is a skilled occupation that requires capital and usually produces wealth-- not desperation. And let's face it voting for Trump in belief that this billionaire isn't blowing smoke up their asses and "feels their pain" is desperation.

Pitch Pole

Ok, so let's see. So far he's said he's not repealing the affordable care act, he's not actually going to recommend prosecution of HRC and company, he's not going to build a wall or make Mexico pay for it (though he did say there might be some fencing), he's not going to round up all illegal immigrants and deport them, and the Muslim ban is now extreme vetting ("do you support the overthrow of the us government? No? Ok, welcome to the US" brilliant!!!). As for draining the swamp, i've never seen a bigger pack of insiders and financial industry veterans lining up for their free government jobs. Nice!!!

Since his campaign wasn't fact based, we shouldn't be surprised when his most ardent admirers fail to recognize reality. It's like the Bushites creating new reality moment by moment, but without all the effort. But in two to four years if it's any consolation, operators will be waiting for your call: there's opportunities to get in on the ground floor of a future Trump Condo project being built in the sahara or perhaps some business courses at Trump U. Have fun!

Pitch Pole

If the critics are right - and yes, it is something of an unknown - then you'll pay the price. Sadly, the rest of the country who didn't swallow the farce will get to pay along with you. But elections can just as easily fix what they screwed up in the past.

Babak Makkinejad

I regret to hear that; a truly deplorable & negligent attitude towards a central issue of Just & Legitimate Authority and its relationship to Political Power.

It was in 1998, or 1999, under Khatami, during which the first steps were taken to devolve political power to the counties, cities, and hamlets - after 5000 years.

So, these Lefties are not advocates of power distribution or decentralization; only that their kind exercises centralized power.

Is that a fair statement?


What's so bad about that? The "deplorables" just want to get up every day and go to work- hopefully at a job where 10 illegals aren't already there depressing the wage base- save up for their future- forget about that with parasitical Wall Street's financialization of everything almost. They would like to not see how the rest of the world hates us due to our relentless drone bombing the Hell out of everybody else. The list goes on and on.
We deplorables just want to be left alone and to not have Granny Government telling us exactly who to like, what to eat, etc etc. We deplorables would really like to see all those damn snooping cameras you see now everywhere removed.

Frankly, we deplorables are pretty sick and damned tired of all these politically correct liberal types lording over us. Time to sweep them out with the trash.

Spoken by a liberal leaning deplorable that finally had enough and voted for the Donald.

mike allen

Colonel -

My grandmother's baby brother Douglas was also a Wobbly. But he served this country in WW1. He had a conflicted heart about it after the war, due to the abuse and insults he got from those who did not serve.

PS - how does a good State-of-Mainer end up in the horse cavalry? Or was your Dad an emigrant to God's Country from a more horse loving state?


BINGO, Thomas

I also second the notion argued by many in the thread that Trump put forward salient policy, i.e. Wars and Jobs, while the "Dem" elite argued personality and identity politics - subsequently most "Dems" have no idea what Trumps policy proposals even were....or Clintons for that matter.

Babak Makkinejad

I heard a different explanation:

In 1975, the US Great Lakes states - New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana - together with Ontario - had they been an independent country, would have had the highest per capita income in the world. Even Switzerland would have been a distant second at the time. These states and province were making things that people wanted to buy all over the world.

Two things happened: US Federal Government kept on taxing these rich areas and spending the money in the coastal area; in defense etc. So these regions became capital-starved both in human and in financial terms.

And as capital left, brains left with it; in Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana you hear people wanting their children to stay close to them and to live and work in the same state. Alas, it is not to be; they have to go to Brooklyn, share a room with another person, where the communal toilet is in at the end of the hall and the communal shower one floor up and eke out an existence not too dissimilar to one in 1940.

In my opinion, the global industrialization did hurt these states but smarter and more intelligent policies, by those states and by US Federal Government could have gone a long way to mitigate those negative effects.

Old Microbiologist

One must alse realize that during her tenure as a Congressman her net worth went from zero to a billion dollars. Granted her husband has earned the lion's share but her free "gift" of 1,000 share of VISA before it's IPO is a sign of how it was done. We badly need term limits!!


mike allen

My mother was from Maine. My father was from North Dakota. He ran away from home in 1916 and by chance enlisted in a cavalry regiment. He was unsentimental about horses, saying that they were big, strong, stupid animals with large teeth and hard feet. He stayed in the cavalry about 15 years serving in the 7th Regiment, 26th Regiment and the Philippine Constabulary. By that time he had an accounting degree obtained in off duty study and transferred to the Finance Department. He met my mother at dinner at a friend's quarters at Ft. Devens, Massachusetts. She wa a house guest of the friend's wife. I was born 10 months after they married. Anything else? pl


Nope. Those corporations paid huge salaries to management who could not or would not adapt to a changing world. Small cars? No one will buy them? New methods of making steel? Not needed since we know the old ways work best. Those corporations did not adapt and they did not compete well with the rest of the world which finally recovered from WWII, and/or freed up their economies and embraced market based reforms. New industries formed on the coasts, centered around the academic centers that could support them. Finally, we shaped our policies to support the interests of the elites (wealthy) who shipped jobs elsewhere.

Then, the kids started leaving. They went to where they could make money.



You are doing the typical liberal argument by assertion.

1) Cleared out Chritie's lobbyists, fired Christie.

2) He said specifically prosecution was not off the table (see @maggienyt)

3) a big beautiful wall http://m.imgur.com/k5bcyWZ

4) Has said nothing about the ACA to even make one think it's staying around

Quadruple down on what you did the last election. Its working so well for you.

Babak Makkinejad

I am not questioning the incompetence of GM management or the destructive militancy of UAW.

Nor do I excuse the venality of state governments over a period 50 years.

But I ask you - Was money pumped out the American Midwest to the benefit of places like Massachusetts and California or not?


I am a Democrat myself.

I feel very alienated from the party -- because the Democratic Party moved away from me.

The Democratic Party is becoming a collection of globalist Masters who feel untied to the rest of us by love and loyalty -- and those who have tied their fate to theirs. The Republican Party's declared positions make them a party of those who perceive themselves as financial secure -- that is why they can be against government benefits and hope for a tiny federal government.

That leaves the majority of Americans without a party, whether they realize it or not. That includes me too: I am a nominal Democrat at the moment. I long for another party that is not conservative but will put America first.

As for relying on the Masters, well, they rely on us too. Those who want to can leave.

I want an elite that is reconnected to me and to our fellow Americans -- but that will require a huge attitude change on their part. They will have to start seeing the US as something precious and its people -- the people already here -- as worthy and deserving of their respect and attention. That's a mighty tall order.


kao_hsien_chih wrote:

'If the Manhattanites don't think they should "subsidize" Staten Islanders, why should they? I think that is fundamentally a good question. If the Manhattanites don't think Staten Islanders are the same people as they are, maybe they shouldn't be in the same city, or the same country, and maybe they are better without each other.

I think most Manhattanites think they should subsidize the Staten Islanders but at this point what is it getting them - Donald Trump? At some point we aren't the same people any longer whether we want to admit it or not.


Eliot wrote:

'I would abandoned the culture wars at the national level and focus on economic issues instead. As it stands, the party is antagonizing voters who might otherwise support them.'

You mean abandon those parts of the constitution the deplorables don't like so they can impose their version of white Christianity on all of us? Wouldn't that make us all Republicans?

How about the deplorables develop a little tolerance for others who may be different from them so we don't have to keep going through this social justice nonsense over and over and over?

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