The Turks want Mosul and Aleppo "back."

"Speaking during an opening ceremony for an educational institution in Bursa on Saturday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan compared the way that Syrians and Iraqis have been driven away from homes because of the self-proclaimed Islamic State (IS; ISIS/ISIL), to how Turkish people were once forced out from the same cities.

Erdogan added that the cities of Mosul and Aleppo belong to the Turkish people." AMN

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If you know anything about the history of the Ottoman Empire you should not be surprised by this.  These two cosmopolitan ME cities were among the most important in the empire.  Baghdad was another but there was always a large Arab majority there,  Mosul and Aleppo were much more diverse.   It was only in the Kemalist consolidation of the Turkish Republic in the 1920s that Turkish sovereignty over these places was surrendered officially.

This statement makes clear what Erdogan's ultimate ambition is and ensures that no Iraqi government will ever acquiesce in the participation of Turkish troops in the liberation of Mosul or Kirkuk.

Only an ignorant neocon fool like Ashton Carter would think differently. 

Perhaps the Clinton Administration's foreign policy team, Wolfowitz, Bolan, Petraeus, Keane et al  will be able to bully the Iraqis into accepting this.  I think not.  pl 

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/erdogan-proclaims-mosul-aleppo-belong-turkey/

 

Comments

[Jack]

Sir

I believe Wolfie was on a recent TV show claiming he is an advisor to the Borg Queen and his support for her. That should be sufficient evidence of her Jacobin dreams and the ziocons that will staff her administration. It will be amusing to see all the Sanderistas and the Warren wing that backed her turn into pretzels as they justify her belligerent actions overseas and her giving the keys to the big government store to the plutocrats that bankrolled her campaign and foundation. The Saudis and Qataris and Likudniks and all the Wall St banksters must surely be counting their chickens as we get to the home stretch of this election.

[Patrick Bahzad]

Pat,

I guess you're spot on. Working on my Mosul piece as we speak, and I will try and address the issue. Bit of an emotional day ... lagging behind schedule

[OIFVet]

Erdogan's got designs on parts of the Balkans and the Caucusses as well. Perhaps even on Crimea and the Budjak region in Ukraine. The Turkish government keeps publishing school maps of Turkey that "mistakenly" include certain regions of Bulgaria, Greece, Armenia, Iraq, and Syria. The governments of the affected countries issue official protests, the Turks issue non-apology apologies, and the maps remain unchanged. Neo-ottomanism is a real danger to peace, but sure, let's blame everything on Assad and on the Putin.

[different clue]

Assuming that NATO will try "giving away" to Turkey every possible Iraqi place and possession that Erdogan wants in order to keep Turkey "allied" to NATO, and supposing that the R + 6 don't really care what Turkey does or doesn't take in Iraq as long as Turkey permits an R + 6 victory in Syria; are the Iraqis now or ever in a position to prevent Turkey's acquisition of Aleppo and Mosul by brute Iraqi force?

[Razor Edge]

Razor_Edge said ot different clue.....

As it happens, Aleppo is in Syria, so it's not an issue of whether Iraq in in a position to prevent Turkish acquisition of it.

[Philippe]

I guess we could relax a little on the subject, translation was wrong. he didn't said belong, but belonged. RT has changed the video title to reflect this. The turcophones people say also that he don't mention Alepo, but Kirkuk...

here is what he said : " In the history Kirkuk was ours. Mosul, was ours. Just because i said Misak-ı Milli (=something about feeling responsible for the safety of these lands) they got uncomfortable. Why did you get uncomfortable? I was giving history lesson, you should get(understand) it."

[Bill Herschel]

One thing is clear. Russia is not fighting this war the way it fought Chechnya II. There were no ceasefires in Chechnya explicitly because it was known that the other side would rearm and regroup.

[turcopolier]

Phillipe
I don't see a lot of difference. pl

[Fred]

OIFVet,

From the toolshed of our collective memory we should bring out the concept of Free Constantinople. It was Christian once, it should be again. Someone should remind the Sultan.

[Will]

Good, glad the Sultan wants the past restored. Want Constantinople back to Christendom. Need to undo the events of black Tuesday, May 29, 1453.

[Old Microbiologist]

Wow, Wolfowitz and Kagan both on her team and McCain quietly in the background along with already existent Nuland. I believe this meets the definition of neo-con central.

[Balint Somkuti]

Once there was a Vilayet Buda.

I hope that they dont want to reclaim it. Thank God I dont see it on the other map.

[Lord Curzon]

That was the thrust of the Gallipoli landings in WWI as part of an agreement with Russia...

[Green Zone Café]

The USA and other donors created provincial governments in Iraq at great cost. USAID Local Governance Programs I, II, III, and IV (Taqadum), plus the Provincial Reconstruction Teams, plus UNDP and UN HABITAT programs, plus European and Japanese programs, plus military CERP money built and equipped provincial councils and governors' offices. There were innumerable "workshops" and "study tours" for local officials sponsored by the USA, UN, Europe, and Japan. After a few years, there was a substantial cadre of provincial Iraqis who had participated in these programs.

Provincial government elections have been held since 2005. These elections created new political classes in the provinces. These interested new elites had almost no power, however. In contrast to the USA, where local governments have the power to raise their own revenues and to spend an amount equal to about 75% of the federal budget, the Iraqi provinces only got a bone of about 5% of the Iraqi federal budget to spend at their discretion.

In addition to having no spending power, local governments have little or no power over things like public works and building permits, not to mention schools, health, and local mores (the new alcohol ban was imposed nationally). The Iraqi parliament has tried to devolve power to the provincial governments since 2008, but Maliki put up a fierce fight in the courts or otherwise ignored parliament. Al Abadi has been more flexible, but I don't know what the current status of local government power is. The recent "ban on alcohol" enacted by the Iraqi parliament was attached to a new municipalities bill - have not seen it yet.

The Al Nujaifi brothers of Mosul, Osama and Atheel, came out of the system of local and national electoral politics which the 2005 Constitution established.

I met Osama in 2014 (with others). Osama said he wanted substantial authority for the provinces, including control over local police (it has been contested between provincial councils and the Ministry of Interior) and a provincial "National Guard." What would the Al Nujafi brothers want if Turkey wanted to stay? They are close to Turkey. Maybe the Maslawis, the Turcomans in Tal Afar, the Assyrians, etc., might prefer being part of Turkey.

There has to be some new deal to keep Iraq together. I am not talking about Biden and Gelb's foolish tripartite division. I am talking about a reasonable devolution of power and money to local government to do the things local government can do better, based on the principle of subsidiarity. That way, local notables have some power over local directions, and are not wholly disempowered by the Baghdad ministries. This is not a sectarian thing - Basrawis and Najafis feel the same way.

[F5F5F5]

I don't think Erdogan has any actual claim over Aleppo or Mosul, but he wants it to be known how good a neighbour he is.
But he certainly doesn't want to see Kurds or shias on his lawn.

IMHO, the mamelukes are taking over. Again.

[Nuff Sed]

You said, "Want Constantinople back to Christendom? Need to undo the events of Black Tuesday, May 29, 1453."

Wrong.

1. Because two wrongs don't make a right. (A true and noble Christian tenet.)

2. Because there has to be a "Christendom" for something to be brought back to it. And Luther, and then Kant destroyed that, leading to its final capitulation to the Novo Ordo Seclorum and demise in the Second Vatican Council.

Nuff Sed.

[turcopolier]

F5F5F5

"any actual claim over Aleppo or Mosul" No country has a right to any piece of territory. It is altogether a matter of what you can take and hold. Do we Americans have a right to the former Mexican territory in the SW of our country? pl

[Babak Makkinejad]

So Pest was always in Magyar hands?

[Hood Canal Gardner]

Hmm "It is altogether a matter of what you can take and hold." Injuns too?

[F-35]

LOL. Who drove more people from their homes than Turks? Greeks, Armenians, countless other Asia Minor folks were killed, expelled, brutalized and converted...Modern Turkey is result of non-stop genocide of local peoples. I wish Turks could crawl back under some rock in Central Asia where they came from. They don't belong where they are now. It's not their land.

[OIFVet]

Fred,

That is a very unattractive concept to the Western powers. Just remember what happened in 1878: the Treaty of San Stefano was negated by the Congress of Berlin because the Western powers saw it as way for Russia to eventually conquer Constantinople. It directly led to the Balkan wars and WW1, and preserved the dominion of the Turkish puppet over the straits.

There have been rumblings about creating a Balkan Federation, to include Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, and Greece, (with Romania as a possibility), and those rumblings have increased in the past year as the Balkans were swamped with the Sultan's migrant wave. I don't see it as a possibility given the long history of antagonism between all of these states, but who knows what might happen in the future. I would love to see it happen as a way to check Turkish expansionism and US control via the poodles in Brussels. Such an entity would be very problematic for the Borg too, which is another reason why it would never come to be. Given its Orthodox religion and the historic affinities of its members, a Balkan Federation would be seen as a potential Russian ally or a Trojan horse, a stepping stone to Constantinople, and nobody in the West will ever let it happen. Constantinople will remain Turkish, that much I am sure of.

[JLCG]

Yes we have a right because the Government of Mexico after being defeated accepted $15 000 000 in exchange for those territories. I think they should have taken no money and kept their pride intact but they succumbed.

[turcopolier]

HCG

Everyone. Any other belief is sentimentality doomed to defeat and dispossession. This is the lesson of history and history has not ended. pl

[Chris Chuba]

U.S. citizens emigrated to the Texas region of Mexico and at first the Mexican govt liked it because it helped them pacify the Apaches. Eventually, we outnumbered the native Mexicans and the rest is history. Well some trends have reversed since then.

[Fred]

Lord Curzon,

That's a new one. Do you have an actual reference?