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08 October 2016

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rjj

TEST: how many times does this show up?

kooshy

"Those Iglas could just as easily have come from Iran who is no friend of Turkey"
That is a totally uninformed prediction, like same as saying Iran supported Taliban, supplied and armed them.
Iran will not do something to undermine Turkey' government especially arming Kurds with MANPADS. FYI iran is fighting small Kurd insurgency near her border with Turkey. You make a lot of uninformed statements. Maybe you planned and thought it was good idea to invade Iraq.

Babak Makkinejad

Iran, a declared neutral country, was invaded and occupied by USSR and Britain; later joined by the United States and others.

World War II was not considered and is not considered to have been Iran's war and her occupation is another grievance in a long list of shabby treatment at the hands of foreign powers - mostly Christian.

Large crowds used to gather in a square in Tehran, cheering the news of Germany's victories - announced from loudspeakers - that much the population hated the English and England.

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you but still unconvinced; Obama could demolish them rhetorically, something about dotage ...

Babak Makkinejad

Litvinov was a Jew, I wonder if that handicapped him even more in his dealings with the English Government.

Babak Makkinejad

That was still in the future.

I think, however, one could point to the failure of Litvinov's mission and the strong contribution to that failure made by His Majesty's Government to also held that government in part responsible for Shoah.

LeaNder

David, this contribution triggered the desire to go back and reread your articles over the years.

No doubt, you may even somewhat agree, lots and lots of us felt more or less PR'ed after 9/11. With the US, maybe, traumatized more than us "outsiders".

I recall e.g. trying to figure out what specific PR agencies represented certain people in the early days. But without doubt there was a lot to handle, both concerning narratives and media "evidence", e.g. one Bin Laden video comes to mind, to not mention the not easy pattern of Arabic names and their variations .. No harm meant, seriously, I have my obsessions too: if Bell really represented Khodorkovsky and Beresovsky, and I never checked, both simply might have been able to invest more then others, or were well connected (e.g) via Western investment they needed at some points in time. ... On the surface Beresovsky's history seems to show that not all matters in life can be handled by PR. ... The rest no doubt is much more murky.

Sorry, once again long introduction:

2. They are very ‘provincial’ people, with very limited understanding of worlds beyond their own ‘goldfish bowl’. In that sense, ironically, a critical fact about them is their lack of roots in an older ‘imperial’ British culture.

whaddya think: Was Thatcher advised to use one specific theme at the time by their PR agents, which the neo-Iran lady, May, years later has to represent once again without even having (seemingly) opted for it? Am I too cryptic? Or have you forgotten that theme, and only kept in mind the trade unions. Look, I met way too many assholes there too, thus this is not a partisan question.

mike allen

Dubhaltach -

Thanks for the insight on British politics. I wish our US so-called conservatives were similar to at least one wing of your British Conservatives.

Additionally your point in an earlier comment regarding no war on American soil since the Civil War is on point and well taken.

Regarding the border conflicts between the Soviets and Japanese in the late 30s, except for Lake Khasan, which resulted in a stalemate, and Khalkin Gol, which Zhukov won brilliantly, they were mostly skirmishes between border guards. The fact remains that after those conflicts their Neutrality Pact with Japan went on for six years. So they had a single front war to fight with Hitler. Although I grant you it was a very large front stretching from Finland to the Caucasus. Perhaps they are a lot smarter than us, playing chess to our checkers.

Tigermoth

A question:

What is the elected President of a country supposed to say when his country has been invaded and occupied, "Hey it's OK we only want the western bits anyhow"?

What kind of leader is that? Of course he wants every bit of the Syrian territory recovered and controlled by the elected government. He is finding ways to achieve that goal of recovering his country with the syrian people's' help and with the support of his allies.

Second, please supply the supporting evidence of the chemical weapons use. It serves no purpose for him to use them as illustrated by your accusation. Why would he need to? I'm sure war materials are not a problem with Russia involved.

The "moderate" rebels have been accused of using them in their Hell Cannons but no outrage from the MSM there.

mike allen

Kooshy -

The American invasion of Iraq was an insane decision by Junior Bush (that's Georgie by the way, not JEB). I opposed it then and oppose it now.

And yes, I am well aware of the PJAKs and others in Iran. So?

Tigermoth

Also Egypt now.

https://southfront.org/russia-in-talks-with-egypt-to-lease-military-base/

"Russia is in talks with Egypt to lease military facilities, including an air base in the town of Sidi Barrani near the Mediterranean, the Russian ‘Izvestia’ daily reported on October 10, quoting a source in the Russian Foreign ministry. If the agreement is made, the military base will be ready for use by 2019, according to the report."

FourthAndLong

Guess I will vote for Trump. Last night's debate was the last straw. Syria was next to last straw. Never expected I would make such a decision ..Oh well, Barry Goldwater , move over.

Cortes

Is Fitzroy MacLean's memoir "Eastern Approaches " not a better guide to events in Yugoslavia? I'm a Waugh fan but "Sword of Honour " like "Brideshead Revisited" strikes me as having been composed under the influence of Grade A incense.

mike allen

Babak -

You say: "Iran, a declared neutral country, was invaded and occupied by USSR and Britain; later joined by the United States and others."

That is true. My daughter's father-in-law was in Iran during WW2 as an Air Corps radio technician. He worked at a Douglas assembly plant. I think he said it was in Bushehr(?). There was him, an Air Corps officer, two or three Douglas engineers and the rest were local Iranians, who he said were wonderful and friendly people. They were assembling P39 fighters under license from Bell Aircraft that had been shipped there in pieces in crates. He said the Soviet pilots would arrive, jump in the cockpit, and immediately take off to the north, all within an hour or less. The flight to Soviet airfields in support of the War against the Nazis was the only test flight they ever received. He passed several years ago, unfortunately. I would have loved to hear more of his stories.

And I have heard that Admiral Bayandor who died fighting against the Brits is still considered a hero and martyr in Iran, even though he was a Reza Shah supporter. Is that true?

mike allen

Babak -

"that was in the future."

Katyn Forest was in the future. I was referring to Pilsudski and the Battle of Warsaw where the Poles made a complete fool of Stalin and Tukhachevsky.

FourthAndLong

I hope your analysis is correct, because if not it is game over for a vast multitude. FWIW I fear Carter is aiming for intense global conflict. Obama's best use of his limited time would be to remove him. And Brennan should have gone ages ago.

Tigermoth

Here is an article on the Real Syrian Civil Defense Force:

21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/08/syria-message-from-the-real-syria-civil-defence-about-the-white-helmet-frauds/

SYRIA: Message from the REAL Syria Civil Defence about White Helmet frauds

"This is a translated message from the REAL Syria Civil Defence heroes, Latakia Fire Brigade published this message today, 8th October 2016."

"...This is a translated message from the REAL Syria Civil Defence heroes, Latakia Fire Brigade published this message today, 8th October 2016...

...This organization was established by a British person, and is mainly supported by UK and USA. It does not have a number that people can reach them through in emergencies, they choose where and when to operate, they choose the missions they want only. Surprisingly enough, this organization that came to exist only two and a half years ago has gained the full support and credibility for Western and Arab community, while Fire Brigades and the REAL Civil Defense forces that have been working in Syria since 1953 were completely marginalized despite all the efforts they have done.
They were called “The White Helmets, the world’s most photogenic rescuers”.
Their work is pure media propaganda, where every worker has a helmet camera with a whole team supplied with cameras. They are considered as a rescue and firefighting team stronger than any media specialized team! However, you cannot but question all their videos and how they’re edited and how all the victims they rescue happen to be only children.
On the other hand, to be honest, when we first heard of those White Helmets and before we knew who they are and who is behind them – and here I talk about myself – we thought that this was a good thing because many of the members of fire brigades and the REAL Syrian civil defense members had been repeatedly targeted, killed and kidnapped from the early days of the Syrian crisis (March, 17, 2011) until now whenever they head to any rescue mission in any area, whether in areas under the control of the Syrian Army or outside its control. We thought that this way every area would have its specialized group that would handle rescue and humanitarian missions regardless of the party that controls that areas.
Unfortunately, their mission turned out not to be humanitarian. They have revealed their real intentions as we have seen them holding arms and participating in executions and abusing prisoners taken by Al-Nusra Front and other terrorist groups. Most of their videos are fabricated, crops can be clearly noticed, and easily one can recognize what was cropped, or what they were attempting to hide..."

Babak Makkinejad

Yes about Bayandor.

LeaNder

"Why now"?: The authors' recent focus or respective attentions may partly explain, why now?

Besides what are recent polls concerning US support or opposition to the closure of Guantanamo? What monetary implications could result from the larger scenario? Can there there any final decision on "the truth and nothing but the truth"? As researcher, I no doubt would like hands on the documents. As lawyer too. Obviously. Seems there was the underlying larger Kafkaesk Israel scenario as far as Palestinians are concerned: Defending on the basis of no grasp of the evidence that led to arrests, since classified.

http://www.nytimes.com/by/matt-apuzzo?action=click&contentCollection=World&module=Byline&region=Header&pgtype=article

http://www.nytimes.com/by/james-risen?action=click&contentCollection=World&module=Byline&region=Header&pgtype=article

http://www.nytimes.com/by/sheri-fink?action=click&contentCollection=World&module=Byline&region=Header&pgtype=article

******
Murky context, if one considers the larger scenario and "supposed" intentions and aims. Admittedly, I was aware of and followed some personal stories. I don't have the least to compare, but I am aware that much lesser encounters with authority have left deep traumatic imprints. ... To leave out all the troubles on the way to the defined American "aim/s", from the top of my mind: the unfamiliar Arabic names leading to the occasional mistaken identity, or once money enters the scene in search of informers, do dynamics change?

******

thanks for the link, Haralambos.

David Habakkuk

Mike Allen,

What the hell has ‘trust’ got to do with it?

If there was to be any prospect of maintaining the Versailles settlement in Eastern Europe, it depended upon an effective system of ‘containment’ of Germany. It was Germany, not the Soviet Union, which was the dynamic expansionist power at the time.

(If you want a quick way of getting ‘up to speed’ with some conclusions of current scholarship, I would recommend an anthology of his reviews and essays published by Richard J. Evans last year, under the title ‘The Third Reich in History and Memory.’

Briefly. The agenda which Hitler attempted to realise in the 1941-5 was essentially that outlined in ‘Mein Kampf’. This involved the elimination of between thirty and forty-five million Slavs in Eastern Europe and Russia, in order to create ‘Lebensraum’ to be settled by German farmers.

Once this was achieved, Germany would enter into a struggle for ‘world domination’ with the United States. But to win this it was necessary to eliminate the Jewish ‘Weltfeind’, whom – to quote the review by Evans of Zara Steiner’s book – ‘Hitler’s paranoid fantasies portrayed as engaged in a global conspiracy to subvert Germany civilisation.’)

After the Germans occupied the rump of Czechoslovakia in March 1939, Chamberlain shifted to ‘containment’.

However, encouraged by Colonel Beck, he continued to believe that such ‘containment’ was possible without a serious alliance with the Soviet Union.

In so doing, he created incentives both for Hitler to seek a deal with Stalin, and for Stalin to make terms with him – which duly happened.

At the time, there was ample intelligence available pointing to the possibility that this was a likely result of Chamberlain’s policy.

Actually, the U.S. Government was particularly well-informed, as a result of leaks to Charles Bohlen from one of his German colleagues, Hans von Herwarth, who was desperately trying to make the Western powers realise they needed to come to terms before Hitler did.

It might have helped if they had informed us in good time. But there was quite enough intelligence available from other sources.

Statecraft is only about ‘trust’ to a very limited extent. It is, critically, about an accurate understanding of the capabilities and intentions of various actors, and the implications of alternative courses of action. And a very great deal of the time, it is about deciding which of a range of unpalatable alternatives is the least awful.

Actually, Stalin’s threat perceptions and those of Chamberlain mirror-imaged. In both cases, they were afraid of a war in which they would be left to bear the burden of confronting Germany, while the other played ‘tertius gaudens’.

This meant that, if the British were to offer Stalin a realistic alternative to buying time by making terms with Hitler, they had to talk seriously about coordinated contingency plans for war. To say to the Soviets that their forces couldn’t cross Polish territory, while at the same time British and French forces were intending to stay on the defensive, was, to put it mildly, to make Stalin an offer he could not but refuse.

Of course the last thing the Poles wanted was to have Soviet troops crossing their territory. But an alliance between Britain, France, and the Soviet Union offered at least a prospect that ‘containment’ might work – in which case the troops would not cross.

If it did not work, then the fate of the Poles was going to be ghastly, whatever happened. However, rather obviously they would have had somewhat better prospects of avoiding Katyn, if at the time Russia had been fighting together with Britain and France.

David Habakkuk

Mike Allen,

‘Be careful Pete. I happen to agree with you. But talking about Assad's use of chemical weapons is thought of as heresy by some commenters here. Be prepared to be flame warred. They will accuse you of being a warmonger, or a dupe, or an Israeli agitator.’

As far as I am aware, the first time you posted here – at least as ‘Mike Allen’ – was in the discussion of Dr Patrick Armstrong’s post entitled ‘Bellingcat proves the Russians didn’t do it.’

(See http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/09/bellingcat-proves-the-russians-didnt-do-it.html .)

In the course of the exchanges that followed, I posted a good deal of information about the role of Higgins in disseminating patently disingenuous material designed to support the contention that the sarin atrocity at Ghouta was the work of the Syrian government – rather than the ‘false flag’ I believe it patently is.

If want to make comments like the above, I expect a detailed rebuttal of my arguments.

Come on man. Argue. Engage with facts. Display some basic knowledge of something, at least.

mike allen

David Habakkuk -


Thanks for the recommendation on Richard Evans work. I'll try to track down a copy.

I won't refute your logic on Nazi containment. I expect you have done a lot more research than I have available. And I know nothing of your sources.

But even you admit that an alliance between Britain, France, and the Soviet Union "might work" for containment. So if "might" is the operative word here, it might not have worked either.

And unfortunately, "trust" has much to do with international relations, despite the best intentions of statecraft.

mike allen

@David Habakkuk - "As far as I am aware, the first time you posted here – at least as ‘Mike Allen’ – was in the discussion of Dr Patrick Armstrong’s post entitled ‘Bellingcat proves the Russians didn’t do it.’"

I have been posting here for many years. I used the moniker "mike", all lower case in the past, but changed that moniker at Colonel Lang's request when another "Mike" started commenting.

I am not a fan of Brown Moses or bellingcat or whatever his moniker is now. Forensics of photographs or videos is not going to prove anything. That remains the same for bellingcat, Dr Armstrong, the MSM in America regarding police shootings, or anybody else. Voodoo forensics is my term for it. There are a few people trained for it who also have the knowledge of weapon systems and bomb damage assessment that do a decent job. They are few and far between. Andy who posted on Dr Armstrong's blog is one who I would trust. No others that I have met recently.

kenny

Watch the video.

They make false forecasts and then make money off of weather derivatives, which are based on their forcasts. They can also manipulate elections, and they have, think of critical polling stations being closed in 2012 because of tornado alerts in 2012. All that without weather manipulation, which I believe that they can perform too (HAARP as a start). Then consider the weather control links between the Clintons, Romney, and the Rothschilds. Is this not the Borg? Would the Borg not want to control, harvest and gain power from the weather?

Babak Makkinejad

There were already German communities all over the Eastern Europe - say in Romania - had been there for centuries; whose male members later joined the SS.

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