"10 to 20 million max" Buck Turgidson

 

"For Putin, his Syrian intervention has been an unambiguous win on the world stage. Its benefits exist on many levels, not least Russia’s reinforcing the potent message that Moscow, unlike Washington, stands by its friends. When his regime was collapsing in 2011, Hosni Mubarak, who had led Egypt for three decades as a loyal ally of America, was coldly abandoned by the White House. President Obama, against the advice of his own national security experts, cut Mubarak loose to the mob, refusing to take his panicked phone calls pleading for help.

That same year, when his regime was facing the abyss as civil war enveloped Syria, Bashar al-Assad got all the help he wanted from Moscow. Russia saved Assad and has not cared one whit about cries from the international community and NGOs about the brutal methods employed by the Syrian regime against rebels. This message has not been missed in the Middle East. It’s no wonder that even Israel has sought parley with Moscow, which has replaced Washington as the new regional kingmaker-cum-sheriff, while Egypt has renewed security ties with the Kremlin that Cairo abandoned more than four decades ago, in favor of the Americans. No more."  Schindler in Observer

---------------

Trump's son in law is the publisher of Observer Media.  Here we have a clear statement of what the change in tone would be like in a Trump Administration.

Well, pilgrims, decide.  Do you want the Borg Queen and her neocon/R2P pals to run our relations with Russia?  Do you want to gamble on the controllability of an escalatory ladder process if a Russia/US war breaks out in Syria, the Ukraine or the Baltic States? 

General Buck Turgidson in "Doctor Strangelove" assures the president that US losses in a thermonuclear exchange with the USSR "will be 20 million, max!"  Would that work for you if HC decides to discipline the naughty Russians?   BTW, don't believe in any fairy tales concerning magic anti-missile defenses.  People like me and my wife in the DC suburbs and Edward Amame on the Manhattan island would simply disappear, literally in a flash.   The "rubes," as Amame calls them, or at least a lot of them would survive in misery. 

If the Russians follow Soviet target planning they would put several warheads on each of their major aiming points. 

Johnson and Weld are obviously not going to win.

The next president will probably be Hillary.  That will be great for her.  She can then order her AG to suppress the remaining ongoing investigation concerning her conduct and the Clintonworld Foundations.  If the Democrats capture control of the Congress there will be no brake whatever on her power and plans for us all.  pl  

http://observer.com/2016/10/syrias-civil-war-is-over-russia-won/

Comments

[BillWade]

I've heard,unsubstantiated, that Trump will win here in Florida and if I believe my own eyes that's likely true. The Trump rally in Tampa drew 50,000 supporters of which 3/5s had to be turned away. I've also heard, again unsubstantiated, that Clinton has unofficially conceded here, "Florida is not a big deal", ha ha.

[hemeantwell]

We don't live near a large city. We'll just get our hair mussed.

[Bill Herschel]

Victor Hugo said, "If you want to know what God thinks of money, look who he gives it to." They don't want it taken away from them and they cry and have a tantrum when interest rates don't support them. They don't want war. Let us hope that the monied class has the kind of influence on the Clintons that will prevent them from doing something stupid. Let us hope that China gently messages the Clintons that they will not support an adventure against Russia and will actively oppose it.

Chop, chop Mandrake the Redcoats are coming.

[turcopolier]

hemeantwell

How are you planning to deal with disruption of supply chains, financial services, communications, refuges, etc.? pl

[Fred]

Col.,

"a loyal ally of America, was coldly abandoned by the White House. President Obama,....."

Sounds exactly like the treatment given to the California NG. Good for them the re-enlistment bonus "clawback" program has been "suspended". What was it Chelsea said about the military?

[NHaller]

Don't worry, CNN analyst and neocon Middle East expert Michael Weiss says that all the WWIII talk is Putinista propaganda. Plus, he said earlier today on Twitter that should Russia not submit in Syria, no big deal. As he said:

"It's hardly a risk of 'open-ended' conflict with Russia in Syria. Entire Russian deployment could be wiped out in 48 hrs by U.S. Putin knows it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/791362806474039296

Anne Applebaum and the rest of the neocon monsters are already trying to lay the groundwork for war against Russia. This has been in the works for a few years and we have seen the puppets faithfully parroting the neocon Russophobic talking points.

My sister in western Maryland, near the Appalachian Trail, has been rattled out of her bed the last couple nights and mornings by huge numbers of U.S. military aircraft. She sent me a picture of AC130s flying VERY low which she took while out walking her dog (she lives in an isolated area backing up to the AT). The last time she saw this was after 9/11 and leading up to Iraq war.

[Jack]

"Do you want the Borg Queen and her neocon/R2P pals to run our relations with Russia? Do you want to gamble on the controllability of an escalatory ladder process if a Russia/US war breaks out in Syria, the Ukraine or the Baltic States?"

No, Sir!

Its exclusively for this reason why this registered independent, who hasn't voted for a candidate from the duopoly for president in over 20 years, marked his ballot for Trump today and mailed it in. I want a clear conscience that I did vote to ensure my grandchildren do not slowly bake in the fallout of a nuclear detonation. As I've noted before I should move to a location at the epicenter of a blast zone. At least the ending will hopefully be instantaneous.

[mike allen]

As you say, the Observer is published by a Trump relative. That indicates to me that the article is not about a change in tone by a Trump Administration, but more like a last gasp effort by the owner to elect his father-in-law.

As for nuclear war, nobody wants it.

[turcopolier]

mike allen

IMO she is emotionally ill and unfit as Trump is. As for nuclear war "wanting it" has nothing to do with having it. pl

[Ishmael Zechariah]

Colonel,
re:" People like me and my wife in the DC suburbs and Edward Amame on the Manhattan island would simply disappear, literally in a flash. The "rubes," as Amame calls them, or at least a lot of them would survive in misery."
IMO an instant death would be a blessing if a thermonuclear exchange starts. Those who speak about "winning" a nuclear war-and surviving in the aftermath- really know not whereof they speak. Perhaps the military should stage a live exercise with a small device, after placing the "elite" close to ground zero. If this is deemed unpalatable, a modest box barrage, with the "elite" in the box, might demonstrate some facts of life. I cannot understand the "bravery" of some folk at all.
Ishmael Zechariah

[wisedupearly]

Another wannabe Borg angling for acceptance by HRC.
"Playing With Fear: Russia's War Card. Propaganda-driven war hysteria in a vast land with imperial nostalgia, one-man rule, ethnic divisions and a weak economy cannot be taken lightly. "
NY Times yesterday.
http://www.nytimes.com/topic/person/vladimir-putin
actually is more accurate as
"Playing With Fear: Hillary's War Card. Propaganda-driven war hysteria in a vast land with imperial nostalgia, one-woman rule, ethnic divisions and a weak economy cannot be taken lightly. "

[Walrus]

Once a city is gone, political survival, dictates retaliation in kind. What the neocon supporters in Israel don't seem to understand is that the powerful "holocaust" guilt narrative employed by Israel will not survive that first detonation.

To put that another way; "we are all Israelis Now!".

[RogerSpenser]

Hillary will be to Obama as Johnson was to JFK.
They don't have to kill Obama, just pull out all the stop to get her elected.
The entire US Deep State is with the program, neocons and neolibs.
Johnson led to 50K+ Americans dying; Hillary will be millions.
All bets are off on our survival in 2017 after January 20th.

[Sam Peralta]

Mike

I draw a different conclusion. I think Trump has been rather consistent throughout this campaign including during the primary that he will de-escalate with respect to Russia and will collaborate with Putin to destroy the jihadis. The MSM have turned that position into a treasonous bromance with Putin as they villify the Russians for all their own perfidy.

It is that real fear that Trump noted on the trail in Florida that was picked up at least in conservative papers in the UK yesterday, that Hillary's plan for Syria would lead to direct conflict with Russia and a very real threat of WW III.

This real possibility of an escalation gone awry, is dismissed by all the ziocon staffed MSM punditry who will be staffing the Borgist administration of Mrs. Clinton. They believe that Putin will back down under threat of attack. That's not a bet any sober person would take.

Hillary's track record of poor judgment on national security affairs is consistent. In retrospect, her decisions have always been wrong for America and the world.

Col. Lang is not known for hyperbole. His track record has been amazingly prescient and spot on for all the years I've been coming to SST. I would not take his warning lightly.

[NHaller]

"As for nuclear war, nobody wants it."

Ok, so no wrongful acts possible because there is no intent.

[BuddhistHarmony]

It's unfortunate that neocon Hilary will win according to the most accurate pollsters/surveys, even if Trump wins all the toss-up swing states, Hilary just has to win Minnesota's 10 electoral votes to win the Presidency -and it voted Blue/Dem for the past 3 elections & strongly leans Blue.

so how do you stop her neocon/warhawk push>

[mike allen]

Colonel -

We are all entitled to opinions. IMHO, a nuclear war if it comes, will be coming from the deranged grandson of Kim Il-sung and not from Putin, or it will be between India and Pakistan. God forbid on any of that happening.

Putin does not want a nuclear war anymore than we do. He is certainly neither crazier than Kruschev nor Brezhnev nor Andropov. Hillary is not any more aggressive towards Russia than Kennedy and Reagan were during the cold war.

[BuddhistHarmony]

former NATO German military officer MoonofAlabama has a relevant post: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/trumps-foreign-policy-is-sane-while-clintons-is-belligerent-.html

"Trump's Foreign Policy Is Sane While Clinton's Is Belligerent

Some highlights of a recent Donald Trump interview with Reuters:

U.S. Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said on Tuesday that Democrat Hillary Clinton's plan for Syria would "lead to World War Three," because of the potential for conflict with military forces from nuclear-armed Russia.

In an interview focused largely on foreign policy, Trump said defeating Islamic State is a higher priority than persuading Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to step down,..

Trump questioned how Clinton would negotiate with Russian President Vladimir Putin after demonizing him; blamed President Barack Obama for a downturn in U.S. relations with the Philippines under its new president, Rodrigo Duterte;...

Trump's foreign policy talk is far more sane than Clinton's and her camp's. It is ludicrous to event think about openly attacking Russian (or Syrian) troops in Syria with an al-Qaeda supporting "no-Fly-Zone".

Russia would respond by taking down U.S. planes over Syria.

The Russian government would have to do so to uphold its authority internationally as well as at home.

The U.S. could respond by destroying all Russian assets in and around Syria. It has the capabilities.

But then what? If I were Putin my next step would be a nuclear test shoot in Siberia - a big one - to make a point and to wake up the rest of the world. I would also provide secret support to any indigenous anti-U.S. movement anywhere.

China would support Russia as its first line of self defense.

"What we should do is focus on ISIS. We should not be focusing on Syria," said Trump as he dined on fried eggs and sausage at his Trump National Doral golf resort. "You’re going to end up in World War Three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton."

[turcopolier]

mike allen

"Hillary is not any more aggressive towards Russia than Kennedy and Reagan were during the cold war." IMO that is totally wrong. She is deranged and self-actualizing as world mommy. pl

[BuddhistHarmony]

Our only hope is if Hilary is just saber-rattling to win the support of her donors in the military-industrial complex & fellow chickenhawks .. they would love Cold War 2.0 as an excuse to massively increase spending on more expensive stealth bombers, fighters to take on Russia's might

If only Bernie Sanders or Johnson or other more peace-oriented candidate would win

[Tom Cafferty]

History is full of wars no one wanted...outside of a few wackos. Great powers,1914, Serbian Archduke? Hell, our own beloved civil war...some nut jobs in SC attack Ft. Sumter. Your concern is well founded. Colonel. Did the rulers of Merv, Oueen of the Desert, understand what they were starting when they returned the heads of his envoys to the great Khan? Few know the story of hubris and nemesis and Achilles who thought he was immortal before the gates of Troy.

[Bobo]

It has been fifty plus years since most of us learned how to hide under a desk at school, where the closest nuclear shelter was located or had a neighbor digging out his backyard to put in a shelter not that any of that would be of help. None of us want to go back to those days. Personally I believe Putin will not go there. He will poke, prod and threaten. He also will retaliate fully if the USA stupidly launches a first strike. Maybe naive.
Now the for the good news. The American voter is now starting the process of voting for a President and while many will disagree with me Donald J. Trump will be elected the next President of the Unites States of America. How do I know, well take a look at your news programs whether CNN, MJ, ABC and other C's as the tone has changed. They are no longer so cocksure that Trump will lose. Florida, Nevada, North Carolina will go Trump and all he needs is ten more EV's which will happen. The American People are not stupid.
As to Trump and nuclear war that is not in his character. He is a negotiator and knows how much he can take or give but also knows when to fold.

[Swamp Yankee]

In terms of HRC's aggression towards Russia: many in the West may not perceive it as aggression, but the Russians do, and that's what matters. I think they have a decent case. If things had gone the other way in some alternate reality, would we in the USA be content with Russian/Soviet missile systems in Jamaica and Mexico, with an independent Texas* on the verge of joining the Warsaw Pact? I don't think so. Likewise, the Russians don't like having NATO more or less within artillery range of St. Petersburg and missile systems in Poland and Romania. See also Ukraine**-EU/NATO relations.

And of course no one sane wants nuclear war. But wars can happen by accident, by a series of terrible concatenations of circumstances, as in 1914 (or "Dr. Strangelove"). That seems of grave concern to me, and is totally ignored by our putatively "educated" nomenklatura, metropolitan-elite "Morning Joe" class.

* if anything, Ukraine is more central to Russian historical memory than Texas is to the America's -- Kiev as the birthplace of East Slav civilization, the long struggle with the Turks, the new lands of the black earth belt, the Great Patriotic War -- but it serves for purposes of the analogy.

** This is another problem with Western, or at least Anglophone, coverage of that crisis, the false sense that Ukraine is a unitary whole, when it was deeply divided internally about Russia and Europe, based on longstanding differences -- Lvov/Lemberg after all was a Hapsburg city, which is a different story than, e.g., the Donbass.

[kooshy]

Colonel we are not alone, all those nice,neat,orderly, ultra civilized european countries, hosting American bases on Russia’ “near abroad” will also be at the receiving end.

[Ghostship]

It's a mistake to assume that Kim Jong-Un is deranged, he's actually quite rational. After what happened in Libya to Gadaffi, it's pretty clear that the only way to stop the deranged idiots in Washington from attacking you is having deliverable thermonuclear weapons. The thousands of artillery piece aimed at Seoul just don't cut it anymore.
As for Russia, NATO would most likely have lost a conventional war against the Soviet Union so there was little risk of NATO attacking the Soviet Union and even the Soviet Union under Stalin had no intention of attacking NATO so the conditions for a nuclear war never arose. These days there are numerous deranged idiots in Washington who believe that a conventional NATO attack on Russia could be successful, that the Russians would not go thermonuclear and the United States can reassert its position as the World's sole power controlling the Eurasian landmass.