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18 September 2016

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Vic

This is what I also think happened. In the recent past when we have had problems with air support, it has been caused by so called allies who purposely misdirected the airstrike. As we don't have FACs on the ground, I wonder what ally we got the strike location from? Since the administration is not saying anything, I wonder if it yet another "moderate" FSA group which is really aligned with ISIS/JN (making a lie out of the administrations claims that moderate rebel groups really exist).

Vic

LeaNder

Other then that you are cynical, I have to admit that at one point in time I wondered about one specific Danish angle too. ;)

Ghostship

The Reaper drones involved were being flown by the British.
RAF Reaper drones were involved in the weekend airstrike that killed at least 62 Syrian government troops and threatened the fragile truce in the country, the Ministry of Defence has said.
The British military is cooperating fully with an investigation by the US-led coalition into the incident, which led to dozens of soldiers being killed and injured, according to Syrian government reports.
Australian, Danish and US air forces were also involved in the raid.

As for the investigation, the conclusion will no doubt be along the lines of "nothing to see here, move along now"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/19/raf-reaper-drones-used-airstrike-killed-syrian-government-troops
With my tin foil hat on:
1. Why would the Americans need to use a British drone? Don't they have enough of their own? So perhaps this is all a plot by the USG to incriminate the British and Danish so as to sow further discord in Europe.
2. A report that a retired British general raised a memo claiming that all the Russians had to do to disable Britain's air defences would be to assassinate 40 F-35 pilots, had me wondering why the Russian would want to assassinate British pilots. Now I know.
That the memo surfaced on Saturday morning is totally irrelevant.
https://www.rt.com/uk/359656-russia-kill-f35-pilots/

mike

Power is gone no matter who wins the election in November. There is bad blood between Power and Clinton. Hopefully Power will resign and save Clinton the problem of firing her without offending Obamites.

jld

Haven't you noticed that ALL lefties (even the "moderately left" :-D ) find that the head choppers are the best muslims?

Anna

Agree, they are indeed subhumans devoid of empathy and altruistic urges: they are a mortal danger to humanity.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/09/19/deconstructing-samantha-powers-big-lies/
"She lied saying Saturday’s US willful, malicious and lawless terror-bombing of Syrian military personnel was done “in error.” There was nothing accidental about it, a flagrant breach of Geneva terms, a high crime of war, more proof America reviles peace and stability.
Power sounded buffoon-like claiming “(t)he United States is extremely serious about making (Geneva) work.” It was dead-on-arrival because Washington rejects cessation of hostilities and diplomatic conflict resolution. Power is paid to lie for Washington’s criminal cabal in charge. Her despicable remarks show she does it with relish."
The DC deciders need the corrupted and they weed out the honest, principled, and knowledgeable individuals. The main trick for the deciders is to be shielded from any accountability. The US had fallen to the trick some time ago. I tremble for the future of our children.

FB Ali

Ockham's Razor helps in such cases ("The simplest explanation is usually the better one").

Someone down in the chain of command didn't like the idea of the US and Russia agreeing on a ceasefire and a joint anti-"terrorist" campaign. So they tried to sabotage it through this "regrettable error".

It having happened, those at the upper levels of the chain, who were similarly inclined, jumped into the fray to berate the Russians and Syrians, hoping for the same result.

However, it seems Putin plays a cool hand. He isn't falling into the trap by walking away in a huff. That now leaves the US in the same situation - either openly show their bad faith, or undertake more stupid contortions to avoid this.

David Habakkuk

Ghostship,

With my own tinfoil hat on, I can tell you that this is all a deep-laid Putin plot.

A few days ago, Dr Patrick Armstrong, some of whose observations have appeared on SST, produced a post entitled ‘First You Ride the Meme and Then the Meme Rides You.’

(See https://patrickarmstrong.ca/2016/09/08/first-you-ride-the-meme-and-then-the-meme-rides-you/ .)

Discussing recent Western media coverage of the U.S. Presidential election, and other matters, Dr Armstrong points to the interpretation to which much of what is written in the Western MSM naturally leads:

‘Putin has the power to cloud minds at a distance: he operates at a more than merely human status and he’s using that power to reshape the world.’

(Alternatively: ‘Cthulu rides again’ – as the relevant ‘Wikipedia’ entry has it: ‘Simply looking upon the creature drives the viewer insane, a trait shared by many of the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods’ – see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu .)

You think I am joking?

Sometimes, one simply has to use Occam’s Razor.

On the ‘MailOnline’ site, you will find a report entitled ‘British drone took part in coalition air strike that left dozens of Syrian troops dead, Ministry of Defence reveals.’

(See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3796569/British-drone-took-coalition-air-strike-left-dozens-Syrian-troops-dead-Ministry-Defence-reveals.html .)

As so often, the comments are more interesting than the story. As of this writing – and the report has not been up very long – the ‘best rated’ one, with 128 up votes and 2 down votes, reads: ‘Has anyone told the US and our government that ISIS are the enemy?’ The other most popular comments follow in similar style.

Look at the chronology: the Reuters report, explaining that ‘U.S.-led coalition jets bombed a Syrian army position at Jebel Tharda near Deir al-Zor airport on Saturday, killing dozens of Syrian soldiers, Russia and a war monitor said, paving the way for Islamic State to briefly overrun it.’

The dignified response from Vitaly Churkin, and the hysterical ‘banshee-wailing’ from Samantha Power. And then the devasting ‘put-down’ from Maria Zakharova.

And finally, the real knife thrust: not simply the Australians, and the Danes, but the our own Royal Air Force, are intimately involved in a military action which plays into the hands of people who almost everyone in this country (except perhaps for some readers of the ‘Guardian’ and ‘FT’) want to see exterminated.

How else can one explain all this, except by attributing magical powers to Putin?

Will

i had been following Scott Adams (Dilbert cartoonist) on Twitter and his blog. He understands the psychology of the election but is an uninformed idiot on foreign affairs. Totally in the Borg bubble.

In a periscope chat, he said bombing the Syrians was tit for tat for them not letting aid through. And it was sending them an appropriate message to ensure that aid would go thru.

I regret having promoted the idiot. i have read his cartoon for years, but honestly, i never saw the humor in it. I had purchased and listened to a couple of his audio books. Just wish I could return them.

But he could have something there, was it a message for the Russians to co-operate better with the Borg? Or was it a message to show how vulnerable the SAA is to attacks from Israel and the U.S.? they are very vulnerable. Don't know how good the Russian air defenses are. They can't match the F-22 Raptor. My hunch is somebody cracked the Russian Air defense code and succeeded in degrading it. This gives the Borg bombing impunity and they demonstrated it in a case where a mistake was out of the question, a besieged city out in the desert surrounded by ISIS and no "moderate rebels" around. Look boys, this is what we can do.

b

The strikes enables ISIS to take the heights defending Deir Ezzor airport and thereby the last supply line for the troops and 150000+ civilians there.

Deir Ezzor is toast of counterattacks fail to regain the heights.

Before this attack the U.S. instigated Kurds to suddenly attack government forces in Hadarath, another city in the east.

With Deir Ezzor eventually falling the last government bastion in east Syria will be gone.

The longterm U.S. plan for a "Sunni entity" in east-Syria west-Iraq can then be established.

b

The Australian, UK, Danish participation in the raid on Deir Ezzor is fantasy.

They don't have A-10/F-16 and Danish F-16 don't fly in Syria. The drones were U.S. according to officials quoted by NYT.

These folks "volunteered" to share the blame. That's all.

Fredw

If the strike was a mistake, then it was a much worse mistake than has been admitted. The apparent amount of planning and the fact that the operation was WAY outside normal operating procedures suggests that someone (IS?) developed the ability to feed us bad intelligence over a long enough time period to draw us out of our normal routines. That is not likely to be given as the official explanation, but it seems more likely than "We were in the area, miles and miles from our usual stomping grounds, and just happened to see what looked like an IS operation. So without checking with anybody, we just hit them." The reported immediate start of an IS offensive is consistent with the idea that they baited a trap and jumped off when it was sprung.

Can anybody give me an idea of what would be required to accomplish such a thing? Could IS manage such a thing? The Russians?

Jean

Long article about US covert Ops in Syria. Thought it would interest you guys. Regards: http://fortunascorner.com/2016/09/15/u-s-special-forces-sabotage-white-house-policy-gone-disastrously-wrong-with-covert-ops-in-syria/

turcopolier

b

Yes, IMO this was quite deliberate and Power's reaction was frutration that the Russians did not accept a screwing gracefully. pl

Castellio

It was Sunstein who brought the term "cognitive infiltration" to the fore. By that he meant secret government infiltration, propaganda and undercover actions within groups opposed to government official narratives. He didn't oppose it: he was for more of it.

Honesty and transparency are the opposite of what Sunstein recommends.

Ken Roberts

MRW ... Thanks for info. One nit: the period at end of wiki link for Vitaly Churkin invalidates the link. Best to leave space after a link before punctuation.

Churkin asks if anyone is in charge in DC. I think that is accurate perception.

Reaction of Russia is likely to be asymmetric. Perhaps towards the actors they believe responsible for this particular provocation? If no-one is in charge, then what would be point of responding back towards a central authority or figurehead. Rather try to adjust balances. Perhaps a "drain the swamp" approach?

b

Corrections:

"*if* counterattacks..."

"Hasaka" (not Hadarath)

Eric Dönges

Does it even matter if the bombing was intentional ? What right does the U.S. or it's allies have to bomb targets in Syrian territory without the consent of the Syrian government when they are not in a declared state of war with Syria ? Does sovereignty only have meaning when it applies to the U.S. ? If this is to be the future of NATO, I want no part of it.

Will

i agree w/ the Col. that it was deliberate. the techs found out a way, an electronic countermeasure, to nullify the Russian Air Defense bubble and this was a demo. hey guys, the SAA is vulnerable and can be destroyed at will. Start playing ball w/ us. Assad must go. Kind of like Hiroshima. Japan had been firebombed heavily. The Soviets had rolled them up in Manchuria and were about to attack Kyushu on the undefended side. the war was over once the Soviets declared war and the Japanese lost hope of soviet meditation. But the bomb was a demonstration to the Russians that we were in charge. And it kept them quiet until they got their own nukes.

there will be no Russian response until they figure out whether their Air Defense has been compromised.

Alexey

There is a myth of large scale rape by Red Army soldiers born out of book from 50s I believe. Problem is the book is more Cold War propaganda thing than any real research into the issue.

Reality is both rape and pillaging were prosecuted very severely in Red Army with often deadly consequences for perpetrators. So although such things certainly happened the scale was unlikely to be bigger than in case of American or British troops. Smaller I would even dare to guess due to harsher discipline and more puritan society (in memories of Soviet soldiers one can sometimes find disapproving passages on "lack of morals" and exhibitionism of German civilians).

Babak Makkinejad

I think that we are all around because N.K. showed sanity and withdrew those missiles from Cuba in 1962.

turcopolier

will

"the techs found out a way, an electronic countermeasure, to nullify the Russian Air Defense bubble" You are assuming that Russian air defenses would have been willing to engage US air in a context of a supposed cooperation against IS. Would Russian air defenses in western Syria have ranged Deir al-Zor? The aircraft entered Syrian air space coming from Iraq in the east. It will be interesting to learn what the Iaqi government has to say about this. pl

Mark Logan

Dubhaltach, Ghostship,

Good questions which hopefully will be answered at some point.

I doubt it for the moment because I can't put together a risk/reward ratio and motive for a senior officer or civilian to order it. They would be putting their career on the line to do what? Hit a few guys out there?? The risk would be high due to all the "moving parts" in these things and at least several enlisted personnel and junior officers would be likely to smell the rat. Damn few people could be trusted to keep their mouth shut about us assisting DAESH in any way. Around the Unicorns maybe, in the western and northern sections, it might viewed as worth the risk but not out there.

michael brenner

The "power to cloud men's minds" was an exclusive of THE SHADOW - vintage radio show. Lamont Cranston had learned that skill while living in the Orient (masking the truth of its Russian provenance). 'The weed of crime bears bitter fruit; who knows what evil lurks in the heart of men" was his signature line. Of course, today it would require modification: "who knows what evil lurks in the minds of LGBTQs?"

FB Ali

David Habakkuk,

Your tongue-in-cheek explanation ("Putin has magical powers") is as plausible as some of the kooky conspiracy theories being advanced seriously by some people here.

These news items about drones and Danish etc F-16s are also designed to confuse people. What does it matter who flew drones prior to the attack or flew air cover during it? The actual attack was carried out by the American A-10. The critical factor there is the coordinates put into the plane's targetting computer.

These are usually put in electronically from the command post controlling the strike. People should start looking from there all the way up to Ash Carter to pick their favourite culprit. But Occam's Razor still applies.

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