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18 September 2016

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readerOfTeaLeaves

Lesley, I can only assume you don't know any/many Sanders voters. Those that I caucused with included cancer researchers, a guy who manages a front end of the website for a Fortune 500 company, several people who develop medical devices, a grocery clerk, an accountant, and some articulate students - just off the top of my head.

"Ludicrous idealists?" Not unless you think that searching for cures to cancer, or helping people monitor blood glucose, is 'ludicrously idealistic.'

Tyler, how about the $885,000,000 in gimmedats that The Donald weaseled out of NYC?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/nyregion/donald-trump-tax-breaks-real-estate.html
Yes, yes, it's a link to 'lame stream media', but this information is also supported by the reporting of David Cay Johnson, who has been reporting on Trump since 1988, and who specializes in economic policy and finance.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=david+cay+johnston+trump

I often enjoy your comments, but having spent far too many hours of my life around real estate developers, I've observed that without gimmedats, their business model = bankruptcy within a month. They're always involved with local and state politics, because their projects are not viable without a whole spectrum of gimmedats.

These (mostly) guys are economic parasites, who love 'risk', provided they can offload their debts to suckers and 'reinvent' themselves with a new project and a whole new set of LLCs. The Limited Liability Corporation, of course, means they keep their yachts and second homes on the lake, while their subcontractors go broke, have no medical coverage, and don't have the legal resources to even the playing field.

With all that said, it gives me heartburn to find myself in agreement with a neocon like Podhoretz.
There have been plenty of signs and 'tea leaves' that Hillary was going to have a rough go of it, but apparently the DNC is operating on the political equivalent of Windows 3.0.

ked

for those of you consumed by Hillary Derangement Syndrome (or Love, since everyone desires a scary red) here's a treat... enjoy!
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/18/what-s-in-hillary-clinton-s-radical-thesis.html
on the Deplorables thing, c'mon... does anyone really think that at least a third of the TrumpMeister's followers aren't animated by deplorable values?
if not, you evince a powerful idealism. hell, at least 1/3rd of the participants in EVERY populist movement espouses deplorable values.
that's the enticement, & at least half the fun.

The Porkchop Express

Because our political discourse is so narrow, the political spectrum in the US is all basically right of center. Whereas in Europe and other countries, there is a greater and much sharper difference between left and right. But Hillary would fall on the left side of the right of center. Our political system, although not designed as such, only allows for a narrow range of discourse along mutually acceptable orthodoxies. Those lines, whether "liberal democrats" or "conservative republicans", all exist on a continuum that is still right of center at the end of the day on any political spectrum. That she's a disciple of Alinsky and may share Marxist attitudes doesn't mean she's left of center when it comes to actual policy.

BabelFish

Well done, and thank you.

Nancy K

What will the Orange Messiah voters do when after he is elected president, they are still old, unemployed, angry, fearful, unhappy that there are still racial and religious minorities in the country, and they can find no one to build the wall. Should be interesting.

turcopolier

Nancy K

"after he is elected president," Is this a prediction? pl

Tyler

Brunswick,

Yes who to believe? The paradigm of Left and Right from the French Revolution or mendacious mealy mouthed sophistry that considers open borders, mass gun confiscation, and criminal coddling center right.

"Politicalcompass.org" Lmbo what kind of speak and say basic political analysis are you living in? Step your game up.

Tyler

TPE,

To your last line: yes, it does. Let's not engage in ridiculous relativism here.

Martin Oline

I'm going to a Trump rally in Fort Myers, FL this afternoon. It is nice to be retired and able to have the time. I may very well vote for him in the election. My fear is that neither "major" candidate will receive enough votes in the electoral college and the House will elect Eddie Munster from Wisconsin.
I hope to be positively influenced by Trump and his followers. Demonstrators will be there so that will have an entertainment value as a bonus!

StoneHouse

By the way... Watch what happens this week as the Barack Obama 'personal insult' comments sink in among black voters. We are seeing a surge of support for Trump in the black, urban demographic with the "Democrat Plantation' meme taking firm hold, and an appreciation for Trumps' 'straight talk' (what do you have to lose did, in fact,resonate). Obama just iced the cake by talking down to black voters and insisting that they vote as a racial block for Clinton as a duty to him personally. I predict that you will see this taking hold, and breaking out, in social media this week. Another tone deaf, Dem unforced error. Ballpark guess, right now Trumps' support among blacks is around 25% and skying. You won't be able to see this if you are getting your news from CNN (spend some time in Twitter and YouTube and you'll be able to watch it happening in real time.

Edward Amame

That's some major league concern trolling, Podhoretz.

Here's Kevin Drum on why the progressive case for Hillary Clinton is pretty overwhelming: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/09/progressive-case-hillary-clinton-overwhelming

turcopolier

EA

What is "concern trolling?" pl

steve g

Tyler
You never get a response from them
because there is nothing to quantify
or qualify their statements. I ask the
same questions all the time here in
Mogadishu on the Mississippi and the
silence is deafening. As a group they
are a net loss here. An insder working
in social services has been told not to
question any benefits they apply for.
Saw multiple groups myself at SS
office. They have had a shortage of
canes here due to disability claims.
(snark!!)

pj

On the other hand, from a reliable and unassailable progressive 0 http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/can-the-occupy-left-vote-for-clinton/article/2602135

Nancy K

It is a possibility more than a prediction, but it could go either way.

Nancy K

You are so wrong about black voters. They will not vote for Trump in any kind of numbers at all. They may not vote in record numbers for Clinton, but they will not be voting for Trump. By the way I don't watch CNN but then I don't watch FOX either.

jsn

I try to avoid link whoring myself and my feelings won't be hurt if pl. doesn't post this comment, but I've spent a fair amount of time and amalgamated a number of links on your subject here, embedded in this series of posts from five years ago. You may find them interesting, or an unreadable bore!
http://cobblehillbilly.blogspot.com/2011/11/sting-of-success-or-why-powerful-prefer.html

ISL

Per wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organization

The Trump Organization spans a wide variety of industries including real estate, construction, hospitality, entertainment, book and magazine publishing, media, model management, retail, financial services, board game development, food and beverages, business education, online travel, airlines, helicopter air services and beauty pageants.

and a total of 515 subsidiaries.

More interesting is why Trump has not sought to point out the broadness of his businesses (And that the bankrupt ones are a small fraction) to counter the common meme you note. I would propose its because he recognizes that this election has nothing to do with facts and policy.

Edward Amame

Col Lang

In this case the the concern troll suggests to the other side how they could have made something better. His actual intent is to sow doubt/uncertainty among Democrats.

A good friend of mine (Caucasian) who was an ardent Bernie fan just revealed that he went for Hillary in the primary because of an apparent lack of enthusiasm for Sanders among minorities, esp African Americans. I did the same thing for the same reason plus the fact that the GOP would have had a field day with a transplanted NY Commie Jew to Vermont. As in he "honeymooned in the USSR and never came back." The tell was that next to nobody in the GOP laid a glove on Sanders during the primaries.

Like Drum, I do not like the fact that Hillary's a hawk, but I added up all the plus and minuses and went with her. I still consider it the right choice. I was stumped by those 80%-20% polls in favor of Clinton a few weeks back. The current polls make more sense considering the Dem/GOP makeup of the country. The debates will be the deciding factor for the independents/undecideds.

jsn

Thank you for clarifying. Personally I think the quote best summarizes the pathology of power: psychopaths, which genetics tell us make up about 1% of our population, are attracted to power and once they have it they use it to deploy their instrumental vision of their fellow man.

Lacking in empathy and moral imagination they imagine a world of people like them and set about, with their power, institutionalizing that vision. Once started, the perks of the system create a sociopathic environment that attracts ambitious people of all sorts but particularly those lacking a strong moral vision.

Once the institutions and culture are in place, the powerful are institutionally/systemically incentivized to take the instrumentalist view embodied in this quote now rounded out with the arrogance of unrestrained power.

ex-PFC Chuck

Here's the UD's definition of Concern Trolling:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern%20troll

Out of Steppe

Probably right, re Sanders' supporters. Also problematic: he made a deal and would be seen by many as dishonorable in breaking it. But who else can do the patriotic thing here and help the DNC see the trouble they're in and the gravity of HRC's health and legal problems? This person needs:

1) The stature to plausibly threaten a last-minute write-in campaign that would take enough votes from HRC to ensure a Trump victory (Bloomberg? Warren? Gore?) AND

2) The temperament to risk "everything" (in a political sense). The person who makes this power play would not be rewarded with the nomination or anything else; s/he would be vilified by polite society, even if the strategy "worked" and the DNC switched out its nominee.

There is, in all likelihood, no one with the STATURE + GUTS required. Proving Podhoretz right.

Tyler

Nancy,

You're so pretty when youre mad.

America is gonna be great again, and all you can do is pout about it.

Tyler

Nancy,

20% support among blacks.

Let me tell you how wrong you are regarding blacks willing to vote for a sick old woman.

Edward Amame

pj

He wrote the book in 2015. Now she's the Dem nominee. There really is no alternative for a reliable and unassailable progressive. If only for Drum's reason #46: She would nominate liberal judges to the Supreme Court.

The probable post-election makeup of Congress means major legislative initiatives by Clinton (or Sanders had he been nominated) will lie fallow. Esp since Sanders has been so lackluster in promoting Dem candidates down-ballot: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/senate-bernie-sanders-226524

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