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13 September 2016

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Haralambos

I have tried to follow this campaign as little as possible with the exception of SST. Yesterday I came across a long essay by Bill Moyers which seemed to me to trace the history and reflect on state and fate of our nation. This is the link: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/09/bill-mowers-we-the-plutocrats-s-we-the-people-saving-the-sou-l-of-democracy.html

The title is :" We, the Plutocrats vs. We, the People: Saving the Soul of Democracy."

JohnH

'Stronger Together'...deplorables need not apply!

It just shows the total vacuity of Hillary's sloganeering.

Swampy

The problem with utopias are perfectionists.

Just hit September and this roller coaster election has no signs of slowing down. Any word on cancelled debates yet?

kao_hsien_chih

Babak,

I concur entirely. Many people on the left, especially, seem to be of the impression that, by pretending that problems don't exist, they can be safely ignored. Instead, it will ensure that it festers and becomes worse.

How this strata of the dissatisfied might shape politics, however, remains unclear. As much as David Duke was a symptom of the illness, rather than the cause, he and his fringe views, even without getting into moral judgment, could not draw enough support. Trump (and his Democratic counterpart, Sanders) hold much more potential for mainstream appeal, but are again fundamentally flawed candidates who have had trouble bridging the divisions among the discontented (that the candidates themselves lack the political finesse and many of their supporters are not particularly tactful does not help them expand coalitions.)

I tend to think that, while discontented, there are many voters who are still sitting on the fence: they recognize the flaws of the alternatives enough that they are not ready to throw their support behind them--yet. Hardly an endorsement for the status quo, but a recognition that the cure does not seem better than the disease, at least for now. There are two possible courses of change, or some combination of the two: the establishment recognizes the problem and reforms, at least enough to dispel enough of the discontent, or a more capable candidate emerges to lead the discontented to a political change. (The combination of the two would be that the current path continues, or even worsens, so that the eventual champion of the political change will not be quite so competent or appealing--but still better than the worsening rot.)

Jack

Laura

Did you read Trump's speech and notice how he's presenting his side of the "deplorables"? Do you see his argument of "insider" vs those with no political power?

Look at what he said in Asheville, NC yesterday.

"The Democratic Party has run the inner cities for fifty, sixty, seventy years and more.

4 in 10 African-American children live in poverty, including 45% of those under the age of six.

2,900 people have been shot in Chicago since the beginning of the year.

For those suffering and hurting, I say: give Donald J. Trump a chance. I will fix it. What do you have to lose?"

This is all about persuading a few "swing" voters and reinforcing the "deplorables" to band as a tribe and show the insider Wall St fat cats on Nov 8th. He's not trying to persuade you or the coastal and urban elites. He knows he'll not win you over. Exactly as Hillary did when she made the distinction of the deplorables basket which was to create identity for her team by vilifying the other team. This election is about those on the fence and which way they break and which team is more motivated. IMO, Trump is using the "deplorables" opening that Hillary gave him to create a feeling among his supporters of "let's give a big FU to the condescending insider elites". He is making the best of the hand dealt to him. He doesn't have the big money or the Republican party establishment or the MSM in his corner.

steve

This was really stupid on her part. Insult your opponent or other politicians and you can get away with it. What do you ever get out of insulting voters? If there is one thing Hillary has demonstrated over and over it is that she is a terrible campaigner. To be fair, she is working with poor material, but she is almost guaranteed to do something to ruin her own campaign.

That said, at one level this is awfully funny as the right has long gone out of its way to alienate and make fun of the left. Is it possible to read any post in a blog on the right w/o seeing the word libtard? If Trump, or any conservative, says harsh things about a liberal or a group that votes for Dems, they are just telling it like it is. This is just another demonstration of how much the "base" of one party detests the "base" of the other party. Let's not pretend this is something new. (If there really are Trump supporters out wearing "Deplorables" T-shirts, more power to them. That is the right way to respond to something like this, rather than get all weak kneed about being called names.)

Steve

Thomas

"I see there is room for you in the basket."

There is room for anyone who considers deviating from the Borganism's pure vision of Utopia, and, if necessary. the Public Safety Commissary will place them in the dustbin of history with the already scheduled for depositing Irredeemable Deplorables.

Borg Brother
To Serve Man!

Laura

Babak...very good point. There are very serious issues we, as Americans, can no longer sweep under the rug or use euphemisms to discount. That is one of the things this election is doing...and it is nasty and messy indeed. I hope that it will be good for us but without a really good press corps it's a crap shoot.

Laura

TC...a plague on both their houses!

Jack

I'm happy to make the basket even bigger.

https://mobile.twitter.com/exercisewhiz/status/775516199853654016

ISL

Dear Colonel,

My only disagreement, is that I truly believe she (like the queens of the ancient regime) holds may of her followers in similar low esteem (those that are not in the 0.001%).

Whoever is president needs to be president of 100% of Americans.

Humans spin all sorts of thoughts, but we all learn not to voice them. However, some neurological deficiencies can cause loss of judgement.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/dementias/detail_dementia.htm

Secret service knew what they needed to do, and she was propped up stiff against the metal barrier before she collapsed.

kao_hsien_chih

PS. I think jumping off the fence, in either direction (for the "establishment" or the "change") requires faith, a lot of it. What is sad is that neither side inspires much faith. Instead, all we get is being berated for lack of sufficient faith, from both sides.

Kooshy

I can't agree more and that is what' worries me, I also have observed that the national, social, political and economical divide is rapidly getting much wider and deeper to the point that both sides can't and won't tolerate each other.
As an example yesterday at lunch, I was mocked by a stranger, for watching HRC' collapsing video on my smart phone, he was seating next table, in sarcastic way he asked how could I watch garbage like this.

rjj

deplorable!!!! could be the new awesome!!!!?????

Lemur

So long as elites use immigration to displace, dismember, and demote the historic American nation, which did not include the global south, Duke's views will grow in their attractiveness. At the end of the day, the constitution requires some pre-political requisites in order to continue constituting a functional Republic. *And that does not include the economy or the worship of it as the be all and end all of the political.*

Clinton's brand of mainline Christianity imbues her politics with a messianic, puritanical liberalism. It's a a cancer.

As for Obama the "gay transgender mulatto Muslim", that is what we call constructionism (c.f. the deconstructionism of the left). It doesn't matter whether its technically "true" or not. He embodies in a symbolic fashion the promotion of all those elements flyover country accurately views as fundamentally opposed to their interests and way of life. His class viscerally hate that those who cling to ''guns and religion' exist. There is no room for them in the glorious new order of men in girl's changing rooms, New Somalia (Minnesota), carefully cultivated balkanization, the religion of "human rights", obligatory genuflection to gay pride, and the general deconstruction of every historical norm of the West.

Given that Muslims as a group within the US pose a much larger threat proportionally than any other, it makes sense to devote extra attention to them. Though Trump never suggested individually hauling Muslims over the coals. The left has never cared about the sacred Constitution when it got in the way of their initiatives anyway, and arguably between the Civil War and Truman any practical potential for it to moderate what the elites really wanted to do was voided.

The left believe only they have the right to impose their values. Now they are facing a coalition which isn't just interested in defending imaginary victories like 'less taxes for oligarchs' but assertively redirecting America back toward a properly right wing society. This is a full scale political war, because there really is an 'other' whose worldview is mutually exclusive to ours. As Schumpeter noted, 'ultimate values are beyond the range of logic to reconcile'.

jld

To enhance everyone ability to categorize the US population, these ones are NOT deplorables:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NWyErowCZg

Charles Michael

Flyoverland in France would be located in Saint Germain des Près center of the intellectual left, they earned the nickname of Germanopratins.

Typical star of the tribe are Bernard Henry Levy (warmonger supremo), Alain Mink (author of two stupid books: The finlandisation of Europe and the Happy globalization), Jacques Attali (guru inspired by Silicon Valley) and many more caciques of the Socialist Party. It was also called Gauche caviar in the heydays of Jack Lang and Strauss Kahn.

Location to fly to would be Avignon for the festival, Saint Paul de Vence, Marrakech in Marocco, secondary residence in the Luberon.


Walrus

It's a very small step for the intellectual elites to go from labelling their opponents as incorrigible deviants to the killing fields of Cambodia.

The intellectual justification is always the same: breaking eggs to make an omelette.

turcopolier

Lemur et al

Cradle Catholics like me typically do not know much about the different Protestant sects. Tell me what there may be in Hillary's brand of Methodism that may create what she is. pl

johnf

Locations to fly to from London to prove you still have a finger on the pulse of provincial life are the Edinburgh Festival for Scotland, the Hay on Wye literary festival for Wales, and for the English provinces the Glastonbury Festival.

There you will only meet all the people you know in London. They're the only people worth talking to.

Haralambos

Col.,
I was raised Presbyterian; my better half was raised Roman Catholic. I believe the Protestant sects are not easy to differentiate, and, within each, there are numerous branches. My Presbyterian Church in the north was very liberal in the 60s. I recall a family whose breadwinner had been transferred from the south and joined the congregation. The woman was appalled that she had to sit in a church with Negroes (the polite term of the day). The "Negroes" were three families of various shades, all of whom had been in the village for more than 100 years. They bore surnames like Jones and a Dutch name I will not give here.

Many of my friends and classmates were and are Methodists as well as several American friends here in Greece. If I recall correctly, Bill Moyers, cited earlier in this thread, is an ordained minister. I believe they share with RC and Episcopalians the clerical position of Bishop. We Presbyterians are governed by Elders, as the Greek root of the word suggests. I am an ordained Elder but do not practice. To my knowledge, there is no official or unofficial category of "lapsed" in this religion as there is for Roman Catholics.

As you probably know, we live in Greece and have done for 40 years. We have attended many many rites here. Many Greeks of our acquaintance are baptized, married, and have their children baptized in our experience, although they do not practice the religion regularly.

I also baptized an Armenian girl since her mother was in dire straits to get this done, and the Armenian Church required a "male." We have undertaken this responsibility although it largely involves providing economic support not spiritual support. The young woman does not attend church regularly. My better half is godmother to several nieces and nephews in the US and takes her role very seriously.

Apologies for this long reply and my limited perspectives. As you know, the subject is vast and goes back beyond the schism.

dr.puck

"and show the insider Wall St fat cats on Nov 8th"

Trump's tax plan gives those fat cats and wealthy coastal elites a giant tax cut.

Help me out--if you dare to--and explain why the coastal and fat financial elites would gain the most in Trump's tax plan.

Side note: Trump is raising big money from the usual GOP plutocrats too. Why? I thought one of his selling points is he was beholden to nobody.

Walker

As a former Sanders supporter, I don't agree with the generalizations about "the left" that have appeared in this thread. I found Hilary Clinton's characterization of Trump supporters to be ugly as well as tactically stupid. I'm not alone. See this post from a pro-Sanders Daily Kos-breakaway site.

Dubhaltach

In reply to JohnsonR 13 September 2016 at 11:17 AM

Anywhere north of Watford. All of Sarf London and Essex.

Dubhaltach

In reply to Babak Makkinejad 13 September 2016 at 01:08 PM

Cornwall and Devon are now the stomping grounds of wealthy retirees and even wealthier second home owners.

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