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29 August 2016

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Brunswick

In the Declaration of Independence, the "property" alluded to, was also slaves.

The Twisted Genius

Brunswick,

I thought Jefferson changed "property" to "the pursuit of happiness."

The Twisted Genius

Brunswick, I'm also sure the right to property also included other goods, possessions and land besides slaves.

mike

TTG: Well said!

Although one snivel on my part. I will still place my hand over my heart during the Star Spangled Banner when not wearing a cover. It is in my bones and I would never be able to salute when uncovered.

The Twisted Genius

mike,

I hear ya. Every time I go through the gates at Quantico MCB, I return the sentry's salute with a nod and a "How you doing, Marine."

Brunswick

As in the War of 1812, Britain also freed any slaves that came over to their side in the War, barred and punished "slave catchers", and constituted Regiments of Freed Slaves.

Sadly, post War, post 1812, many settled in the Maritimes, and Upper Canada, where they were at best, ignored.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/05/23/was-the-american-revolution-fought-to-save-slavery/

ToivoS

I too was struck by this story in the Intercept. Definitely interesting history. I had heard many years back that the latter verses of the Star Spangled Banner was a denounciation of those Americans who were critical of US policy that led to the War of 1812. Basically an early version of accusing the antiwar movement of being traitors. We have definitely seen that played over and over again in recent decades. I experienced that meme during opposition to the Viet Nam War.

Here is another anecdote. Patrick Cockburn, the Independent reporter who had some of the best articles describing the rise of ISIS a few years back, is a direct descendant of George Cockburn. His brothers Andrew and the late Alexander and his father Claude were solid left wing journalists.

The Twisted Genius

There was a lot of anti-war sentiment in New England at that time. Madison's Embargo Act hit the region hard. Most calls for milita units to fight the war were refused and there was serious talk of secession. If the war didn't end when it did, we could have had our civil war a lot earlier.

Brunswick

The North/South Divide in the US was there long before the Cotton Gin.

ToivoS

Most certainly true. One of the big reasons for the establish clause in the first amendment of the US bill of rights is because the Virginians insisted on it. They were afraid that the New Englanders would establish their Protestant version (Anglican, Episcopalian, whatever) the state religion. They wanted to protect what their version of Christianity from the New Englanders version.

Now that is ironic. The strongest objections to the separation of church and state today seems to be coming from those churches rooted in the south.

LeaNder

Thanks, TTG, in hindsight one of things I cannot understand at all, is why I found history so boring in school. Let's say, compared to something helpful like mathematics. Studying literature pulled the veil from my eyes concerning many fields that weren't exactly love at first sight. On the top of the list surely is history.

turcopolier

LeaNder

"The proper study of mankind is man." A lot of STEM types would rather spend their lives contemplating something as artificial as mathematics. It is a lot easier than trying to understand people. I say that while still married to my first wife, SWMBO, who has come around to a full appreciation of the humanities after having been inoculated with the STEM needle in her youth. pl

turcopolier

toivos

IMO the North-South divide was imported from the old country at the very beginning. New England was a planned effort to establish a theocratic state complete with litmus tests for church membership in Massachusetts Bay and Connecticut. Plymouth was so small that it hardly mattered and was quickly absorbed by the larger Puritan colonies that were of a different faith rather than the "Pilgrim" separatist splinter group. You need to learn some specifics. The "established" religion in colonial New England was the Puritan variety of the "established" religion in England. It sought to purify the Church of England not to destroy it. Many of the stakeholders in New England were ministers of the Gospel, and educated at Cambridge University in England, a hotbed of Puritan theorizing and teaching. Several of my ancestors were among them. These "divines" as they were called were usually well off financially and brought servants and employees with them to New England. The society did not tolerate dissent of any kind and saw the New World as a desolation to be conquered and disciplined. In Virginia the non-Puritan variety of the Church of England was the "established" religion. It, too, did not tolerate dissent and Puritans, Quakers, Catholics, Baptists, etc. were not initially allowed within the colony, but it saw the forests and mountains as an immense garden and a proof of God's bounty. When the English civil war broke out in the 1640s many people in New England returned to England to fight in the war. In the restoration of royal authority in 1660 the Puritans pretty much lost whatever they thought they were going to accomplish politically in New England although their baleful spiritual influence persists in the US, including among a lot of Baptists, etc. in the South. As David Habakkuk has observed, the US is the only place on earth in which 17th Century English Puritanism has persisted as a pattern of thought including in its secularized forms. BTW, slavery was legal in nearly all of New England for a long time. pl

turcopolier

TTG

I find the dates puzzling. Twenty or thirty years had elapsed since the War of Independence. Men of military age for service in the ranks are usually in their 20s or 30s. Where were these Colonial Marines born? New Brunswick? Also, during the War of 1812 slavery was still legal in the British Empire. pl

morgan

Colonel, are you sure royal authority was restored in 1640? Didn't King Charles lose his head sometime in the 1640's? Forgive me for being such a nitpick.

turcopolier

morgan

Thanks. I meant 1660 roughly. pl

The Twisted Genius

pl,

By that time I'm sure a lot of the slaves who fled to the British were American born. Some could have been born in Africa. That was immaterial to the Brits who formed these regiments of Colonial Marines. A prime reason to form the regiments was to deprive America of this valuable labor pool. It certainly wasn't done out of a desire to free the slaves. I'm aware that the Brits feared slave rebellions in their colonies as much as the Americans did on their plantations.

Fred

Brunswick,

Yet the British did not free the other slaves within their empire.

Fred

TTG,

Interesting history. As to Mr. Kaepernick. Well he's a multimillionaire victim of oppression. Or in other words a very rich professional athlete whose career is on the inevitable decline but finds a way to gain public attention for his future wife’s tv/radio career. This is very much the m.o. of the BLM activist crowd. It reminds me very much of the Col.’s post on Hilary’s graduation speech where she insulted the US Senator from Massachusetts as a means to launch her political career.

sillybill

TTG -
Thanks for this.
I ran SSG Livingstone's quote thru google translate to find out how Papa Frank might have said it - "Unde brevis mihi osculum, mater irrumator!"
I'll have to check that translation though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAfKFKBlZbM

Matthew

TTG: A wonderful post.

Matthew

Fred: No worries, Fred. And the British ancestors of Rear Admiral Cockburn are happily helping Saudi Arabia ruin Yemen, while expressing outrage that that Assad is fighting for his life in Syria.

Sadly, hypocrisy is universal.

Tyler

TTG,

You can pick a side or have one picked for you. You're playing by rules no one else is except to use them as a cudgel to beat you with. If you really thought the Founders envisioned Somali refugees living off the dole as what America is all about, I got no words for you bruh.

Larry Kart

Given that, according to Pro Football Talk, Kaepernick was likely to be cut by the 49ers this year, even though the team would still owe him lots of money for not playing, and that he almost certainly knew this was likely to happen, I do have doubts that he is sincere about his actions and the reasons for them.

Background on the likelihood of CK getting cut (again per Pro Football Talk) is that aside from him being a rather pissy guy in general and that the team's currrent offensive scheme wouldn't fit him that well even if he weren't pissy, he has had two off-season surgeries, was unable to work out, and his physique in general and his somewhat unique physical skills in particular have deteriorated a good deal as a result.

AEL

I think there is another factor in the North/South split: The influence of the Five Nations culture on the North.

The Iroquois Confederacy had a very strong personal liberty and anti-class bent to it. This attitude leaked into the northern states which tended to oppose a class of people "born to rule". The southern states, on the other hand, turned the planter class into aristocrats in all but name.

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