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15 August 2016

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HankP

Col. Lang -

I used shorthand, but I understand that you were talking about Brooke. As the first black Senator, I doubt he was seriously troubled by the comments of a college graduate. By the tenor of those times, as I pointed out with the quotes I pulled, it was fairly mild criticism and Clinton appeared to work at getting some sort of student consensus about how to express her positions.

I agree that Clinton is too much of a hawk, but I don't think it's because she believes she can change human nature. I think it's because she's the latest in a long line of American politicians who think they can do pretty much whatever they want in the world as far as military action or other interference is concerned. I don't know if it's because they don't think there will be any blowback or that if there is, someone else will have to deal with it. But with a few minor exceptions, that's been American foreign policy for over a century now. I do think Clinton will face pretty stiff resistance from the Democrats if she starts getting too interventionist.

There's plenty to criticize Clinton for, I just find some of it hard to credit when many other politicians and candidates have done similar things and taken similar positions without much criticism.

raven

Right "today's corruption" .

turcopolier

HankP

As one of her partisans you have every right to support her. I think she is the same person as the girl who stabbed Brooke in the back immediately after he had spoken at her graduation. Brooke, BTW, was not the first Black member of the US Senate. IMO she is a bright, self-centered, neocon in foreign affairs and social revolutionary in domestic affairs. I think she is without redeeming qualities other than not being Trump whose "professional deformation" has made him incapable running anything except as a one-man impromptu show. and then there is the obvious monied support for Clinton that largely controls the media. she is being manufactured as the American Eva Peron just as Obama was manufactured by very monied interests. i gave Sanders money every month for a year. I would gladly have voted for him against Trump even though I do not favor many of his socialist ideas but I think he is a decent man. pl

LeaNder

"What she did to Ed Brooke was contemptible. pl"
Amen

I found the article highly interesting.

notlurking

Yes a descent man is hard to find in politics today.....

Edward Amame

That time in America was all about rights: civil rights, women's rights -- I'm thinking it's more likely that by "human reconstruction" young HR was talking about universal human rights. Unfortunately, the article in the WP provides zero context for the "correction."

Tyler

EA,

I am absolutely shocked you have arrived to spin spin spin to defend your Borg Grandma.

Fred

Edward,

Yes, "universal human rights" - as in the US has an obligation to the world as viewed by those on the left.

Edward Amame

It wasn't the left that got us in Iraq, Fred.

Matthew

Fred: Paging Donald Trump. Imagine if (1) this is true; and (2) it is confirmed by a leaked email. See https://twitter.com/A_Rockas/status/765593710730108928

Matthew

notlurking: Brookes had one of those wonderful, old school resumes of quiet, decent, and diligent service to the Republic. The antithesis of Clintonism.

HankP

Col. Lang -

Not sure I'm really one of her partisans, as I'm much closer to Sanders on almost every issue. But, in our system you get to vote for one of two major coalitions and she and the Democrats are closer to my views than Trump and the Republicans. One can vote third party but they usually don't really figure in the final results except as spoilers.

I do appreciate the fact that you've shared your personal opinions of her, since you've actually met her in a working environment, which is more than most people can say. It's interesting and worthwhile to get different perspectives.

I'm not sure I agree about the "manufactured" part, she's been in the public eye since the early 90s and I'm pretty sure most people already know where they stand on her. Obama was pretty much unknown before he ran, Clinton on the other hand has been one of the best known American women for the past 25 years. As far as moneyed interests, sure, they're involved in every election and even more so since the Republican appointed justices pushed through the Citizens United decision. That's one of the main reasons I support Clinton, which is that I want more liberals on the Supreme Court.

turcopolier

EA

The Ziocons infest both parties. Have we forgotten Joe Lieberman, the pure flame of neoconism. In this election cycle they were successful in infiltrating the campaigns of all the major candidates. They have no American party. and you seem to have forgotten all the Democrat liberals like your sweetheart HC who voted for war with Iraq on totally specious grounds. pl

Jack

EA

I think you conveniently forget that the Borg Queen voted to give Dubya the authority to do as he pleased in Iraq and was a major cheerleader for regime change. Let's also let slide Slick Willy's sanctions and no-fly-zone in Iraq. And don't forget all the Democrat senators that voted for the Patriot Act. And also don't forget the role that DiFi played in creating and sustaining the surveillance state.

Are you also gonna deny the left had no role in the creation of anarchy in Libya, Syria and Ukraine under the leadership of Obozo and the Borg Queen?

Tyler

EA,

Yeah, cause invade the world invite the world is a conservative notion.


Edward Amame

Col Lang

I know. My senator, Chuck Schumer, is one of the biggest Ziocons around. But Bibi's embrace of the GOP makes a shift in the Dem party's position on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict possible. That shift was made more possible after the Dem pres debates when Sanders called for a more balanced approach and Clinton didn't hammer him for it. A Pew Research poll released in May shows that "Sanders" Democrats sympathize more with the Palestinians than with Israel 39% - 33%.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/05/05/public-uncertain-divided-over-americas-place-in-the-world/

Re: AUMF vote in 2002. HRC made it clear in her floor speech before the vote that her "yes" vote was not for war, it was to get UN inspectors into Iraq to prevent war. The res required that force was only to be used as a last resort, that sanctions/diplomacy be fully employed first. That didn't happen. And no WMD were found. We went to war because Bush was always going to war, with or without congressional approval. Her *mistake* was in giving GWB the benefit of the doubt.

Edward Amame

Jack

I'm not conveniently forgetting anything, you are. Please see my comment below in response to Col Lang.

I agree with you that there is plenty of blame to go around, but the only signs of FP reassessment I see happening anywhere in the US with regards to Israel/Palestine are on the left. There is little support that I'm aware of on the left for Syrian intervention. I believe that Libyan intervention was supported by just about everyone in Washington, and may even have been supported on this website (I'll stand corrected if that's not the case).

With regard to Russia and Ukraine. I am disturbed by the liberal trend to demonize Russia/Putin and the apparent eagerness to start another cold war. Trump has, IMO, taken the sensible position there.

Edward Amame

Tyler

Except that *conservative* doesn't mean what it used to in the USA any more.

Mark Logan

Herb,

I believe The Donald is the widely disliked, old, ugly, scandal-plagued, tone-deaf, uninspiring, treadworn, blinkered, compromised, myopic, war-hungry (hear him lead the "Take the (Iraq's) oil!" chants the other day?) unwise woman who is currently beating Donald Trump. The man's inner self/alter ego does not wish to be burdened with the responsibility and is sabotaging him. Zaphod Beeblebrox?

Tyler

EA,

All the cool kids (like me) are calling themselves reactionary nationalists.

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