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29 July 2016

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ToivoS

Of course it is Hillary that is turning the Dems into the more rabid war party. She sees this as an opportunity to consolidate support among her base and wavering independents and Republicans. Many of the liberal Dems that have turned anti-Russian were part of the antiwar movement when Bush fell into the Iraq tar pit a dozen years ago.

I have to admit it was shocking to see these same people enthusiastically supporting Obama's Afghan surge, war against Libya and Syria -- i.e. Republican war bad, Democratic war good.

Balint Somkuti

Ms. Steinfels

as compared to Obama/Clinton's 'achievements' of a secure and safe world?

Please! ANYTHING and anybody is better than them. Mr. Trump seems to understand the voice of the people (basically everbody outside SJW ilk).

If he is a stronghanded leader so be it. It is better to live under a strict, but just ruler as under a ruthless dictator who rules in the name of love peace whatever.

Trey N

Yes, the Republocrat/Demican Party is the Party of Eternal War.

Interesting to watch all the neocon rats now jumping ship and swimming back to their original home, the Democratic Party (they started under WA Senator "Scoop" Jackson in the 1970s and jumped over to the Republicans after Reagan's landslide victory).

It *is* confusing, Ken, but please try to keep up.... ;-)

gowithit

Here's how the race is on post Conventions:
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Composite of polling as of 7/30:
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/07/chart-day-hillary-now-commanding-lead-over-trump-sort

Jack

KHC

Thanks for the link. Nathan Robinson gets the zeitgeist. Joe Bageant's people are living in a stressful situation. They're one major car repair or one large medical bill from wiping out all their savings. Bernie only realized the underlying sentiment too late after he was too far in hole. The southern primaries were devastating for him. I doubt he could have changed that dynamic since he could not rally blacks to his side when they played an outsized role in the southern Democratic primaries. The blacks went for who they knew.

I continue to believe that this election will be decided by which side have more enthusiastic voters in the swing states.

Margaret Steinfels

But then, there are reasons why so many view her favorably: African-Americans; most, but not all, Hispanics; many, but not all women; And surprise: Men with college degrees.

I know at least some of these people, and believe me they think she has convictions. They disagree with some of those convictions. I know I do!

Cee

All,

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.html

Ishmael Zechariah

Ms. Steinfels,
I wonder if those families who lost their children/spouses/relatives in the wars of the Borg do not care about foreign policy. Mayhap these are a minority. They might become a majority if clinton tries to push certain issues against R+6. Those living in NYC should be worried. I would guess that it would be a primary target in a nuclear exchange.
Ishmael Zechariah

jld

And surprise: Men with college degrees.

No, it's not a "surprise" that people who make six figures salaries see themselves as among the "elites" and think that they have common cause with the true "elites".
IMO they are deeply deluded and will be thrown under the bus just like the blue collars.

Swampy

Here's a short book on the subject by a lifelong progressive:

Savage Mules by Dennis Perrin

It's a small press, so your library might not have it.
https://www.amazon.com/Savage-Mules-Democrats-Endless-War/dp/1844672654

Charles Michael

I consider myself quite well informed on international issues, including economics.
And I have also a very direct experience of Madame Clinton insisting on trying to save the life of the Tamil Tigers terrorist organization (head and major cadres during their last stand in this terrible civil war.
Little Sri Lanka did not bend to her and all last Top 400 terrorists were killed.
And I remember also the said Madam did accept a donation from the US lawyer of this LTTE and had to give it back. Story goes back 2008/2009.

No, I really don't like her.


PS:the explosive belt is their patent, it was used to kill Rajiv Ghandi among many others (over 350) terror attacks.

different clue

ToivoS,

Why is that unfortunate? The harder and louder Trump advocates decent respect for Russia and negotiations with it, the more overtly antirussianitic the racist antirussianites who lead the Clintonite Obamacratic Party will become. It will be very educational as to who and what the Decromats really are now.

One hopes that Trump can be trained and coached to somehow fake the appearance of being measured, balanced and statesmanlike in his on-air debates with Clinton when it comes to Russia and recreational aggressive war. That should provoke her into convulsive spasms of rage.

JohnsonR

See ToivoS's reply below.

different clue

kao_hsien_chih,

I remember Bill Clinton talking about his "bridge to the Twenty First Century". I wonder how many people are sleeping under Bill Clinton's "bridge to the Twenty First Century"? I know that some of the Hillarrhoids will say how very unfair it is to hold Hillary responsible for Bill's policies and achievements. And I might have agreed, if Bill would have made it clear that he was content to become First Golfer. But when Hillary promised to put Bill "in charge of America's revitalization", she made Bill into a campaign issue.

Margaret Steinfels

All of you college grads making 6 figure salaries, raise your hands.

different clue

Margaret Steinfels,

Many-to-most Americans care about their own economic survival. If Trump can make the case that Clinton is a Free Trade Treason traitor against America's economy and therefor against America itself, he may get a lot of domestically-focused votes.

My big fear remains that Trump is merely shrewd and cunning without any deeper intelligence and knowledge . . . certainly not the knowledge needed to fully understand the anti-sovereignty pro-treason implications of the Free Trade Agreements well enough to explain it that way in simple terms to the targets of those agreements. If I am WRONG about that . . . if he can convince the millions of ex-wellpaid jobdoers in Great Lakestan and Rust Beltica that he understands the full implication and hidden agenda of the Trade Treason Agreements . . . then he should win the states of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, and other states which were mass-jobicided due to the Clintonite Free Trade Agreements.

Up here in the ex-industrial heartland, the Issue Number One is not Illegal Immigration. Its Free Trade Treason Agreements.

eakens

Normally I would agree with you about the populace generally not caring or being informed about foreign policy. However, I think the reaction the populace showed to the idea of going into Syria after the whole "red line" debacle might be the same surprising force which puts Trump into the WH.

JCR

This is a view from Uri Avnery on the Israeli left: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/29/the-orange-man-trump-and-the-middle-east/

Margaret Steinfels

Families who lost sons/daughter/spouses/parents etc. probably have many different responses, mostly about the death itself, then perhaps the place and the war in which he/she was killed, and then maybe foreign policy. There is a chain of causation and not everyone pursues it.

The emergence of a "volunteer" army after Vietnam cut off a critical link in the ability or willingness of Americans to pay close attention to what our military were doing. I am sure there are mixed views here of the draft, but at least it turned attention to why we were fighting and why my sister/brother, son/daughter was fighting it. Rep. Charlie Rangel (D.-NY) who served in the Korean War was one proponent of bringing back the draft; doubt it ever made it into a bill. Think of how few of the current members of Congress actually have ever served.

New Yorkers are worried about many things. Not sure whether a nuclear exchange would come above finding a reasonably priced place to live.

different clue

Lesly,

I don't think the Sanders campaign people expected the actual dishonesty and frankly illegal and criminal behavior engaged in by the Clintonite party bosses. There are lawsuits grinding into motion against the Clintonite suppression of possibly-Sanders votes and voters in Puerto Rico, certain targetted Brooklyn neighborhoods, etc.

And every time the Clintonites put their sore winner attitude on display, they re-alienate the Sanders voters all over again. "Butthurt" . . . Lesly? Try "cold rage and deep hatred". As well as nauseous disgust for the loathsome beliefs and goals of the odious and noisome Clintonites themselves.

If the Clintonites keep spitting and urinating on the Sanders voters hard enough and often enough, they may discover that "revenge is a dish best served over and over and over again."

Bobo

I look forward to this chaos, name calling and demands being turned loose on Congress as after a year or so they will vote together in spite of Mr. Trump so that finally We will benefit.

kao_hsien_chih

There is something remarkable about what got WJC presidency. Over the years, DLC has come to be associated with its stated policy goals, but, if you look back on the founding days of DLC, which I did again lately for reasons unrelated to the current campaign, you'd be shocked at how much parallel there is between the Democratic Party of 1980s to both parties today. The challenge that DLC laid out at the feet of the Democratic establishment then was that all the sacred cows that the Democrats agreed not to touch was increasingly making the party isolated from wide swaths of the American public and that they needed to break some of the these idols if they wanted to engage these voters. Fast forward to 2016, both parties are so full of sacred cows (albeit of different kinds) that all they can do is to blame the people for not bowing down before them.

Strange transition of Bill Clinton: once he was an iconoclast who saw that the idols were false. Now, he is himself one of the false idols that needs to be broken.

Trey N

So much for "honest and trustworthy polls":

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-29/why-reuters-tweaking-its-presidential-poll

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-30/clinton-lead-over-trump-surges-after-reuters-tweaks-poll


The bastards have no shame at all. Having just been exposed in the DNC emails scandal for their corruption in helping to rig the Hitlery nomination, the lying lamestream media propaganda arm of the Borg now doubles down. Thank God for the internet and sites like this!

Oh, and welcome to the Banana Republik of Amerika, comrades!
This shit puts the old Pravda propaganda to shame....

kao_hsien_chih

It has been showing up in the polls. Until recently, Republicans actually have done very well among the college educated white women (Romney got almost 2/3 of their votes.) Regardless of which poll you look, Trump is getting not a whole lot more than 40%, quite consistently. How much HRC shows up as ahead is largely a function of how many of them actually say they'd support Clinton rather than Gary Johnson or "I don't know." This is probably the single most likely demographic reason that Trump would lose.

b

Clinton's auto-biography (ghostwritten) proudly included Libya in the 1st edition. Following "edited" paperbacks missed the passage. Recently release editions missed more "passages" like TPP because these had turned, like Libya, into negatives.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/06/11/paperback-version-clintons-hard-choices-omits-her-tpp-trade-pact-support.html

Talk about fraud ...

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