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15 July 2016


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. . . Talking of Brexit blowback, it didn’t take them long to dump on Erdogan for starting to talk to Vlad. A major terror attack and an attempt coup since his grovelling letter to Moscow.

Ergo -- could be westerners

The Beaver



Give us Gulen!



Treason is a big word. How do you define treason? Tell me how you do that if you think you are acting to save secular Turkey from medieval Islamism? you have seen bodies and bloody young soldiers? Where did you see that? pl

robt willmann

The Virginian,

Yes. If the situation is a real, sloppy coup attempt, or a disinformation operation using the technique of "perception management" (a technique used here in the U.S.), Erdogan will push for more political authority.

The Associated Press says that the Turkey state-run "news" agency stated that 2,745 judges were dismissed across that country. Of course, one does not know whether this or other reports can be believed.

What we do know is false is secretary of state John Kerry saying (via the Assoc. Press) on Saturday (today) that: "the U.S. opposed any attempt to overthrow a democratically elected leader. He says change must come through a constitutional process". Unless you are talking about Ukraine, Honduras, Venezuela, etc. Kerry tried to cover himself with the weasel words, "democratically elected" leader. Sorry, John. No dice.



"a worldwide moderate Islamic movement led by a religious scholar named Fethullah Gülen"

Since you did not use quotation marks I conclude this is your opinion. How on Earth did you conclude that this is a world wide and moderate movement?

A. Pols

Erdogan has been getting rid of secularists in the military for some time, so as to weaken the military's watchdog role in keeping the country secular. The last of them will go up against the wall now.
Turkey under Erdogan has been going down the road to becoming another Islamist country, a theocracy and failed state.
This coup and its failure is probably the death knell for Turkey, as it had been, and the beginning of the deluge.


US suspends strikes against IS from Incirlik base.

Mark Riebling

If you strike the *king, you have to kill the king. Like PL I also had the thought that this could be a provocation designed to strengthen Erdogan's hand, and to justify a purge, a kind of Turkish "Night of the Long Knives," as happened in Germany in 1934 during the Rohm "putsch." I recall Frank Gaffney saying in 1991 that Gorbachev or the KGB could have staged or provoked the August Coup to shore up the ruling clique. That doesn't seem to have happened then, but it could have happened here. That (a) the coup began and continued as something "real," and (b) at the same time was incited, provoked, and exploited by Erdogan, are not necessarily mutually exclusive propositions. Sadly I think of the DB Achilles debacle in Iraq, the failed coup against Saddam, almost exactly 20 years ago.

Willy B

Thank you.

Willy B

He excerpted the first two paragraphs of the USA Today article at the link, which you would know if you had read it. One should be careful about drawing conclusions too quickly.


Der Spiegel mentions that the source for the story is state news agency "Anadolu"




Perception management? Like defining hate speech then rounding up political opponents like the Germans are doing right now.


Willy B,

And "..." are indicators of quoting an article. This is an old, old habit of Cee's.

Ishmael Zechariah

Colonel Lang,
This has all the earmarks of a pre-emptive false flag. The level of ineptitude shown here is peculiar. There are too many unknowns at this point.
Ishmael Zechariah

Lord Curzon

Further to that thought, if this was a genuine attempt at getting rid of Erdogan, I would not be surprised if he'd had advanced warning by loyalists within the Army, and being tipped-off, made his plans accordingly.

Also, I can't be the only one to have noticed that there's a whiff of the Brownshirts / Basij to certain parts of the AKP...


This article seems to say hints were available:



To everyone at SST.

Thank you very much for all the and thought-provoking discussion on these pages. I honestly cannot find a better and more thoughtful overview of current affairs than SST.

But I am beginning to despair ever understanding what the fuck in going on in the area east of Italy and west of Bikaner. There are so many actors, so many different motivations, so many belief systems, so much money.

It just seems that whatever energy was there to barely hold together a tottering structure is now gone and the arena is disappearing into an entropic sludge.

I will most certainly keep trying, and if I come up with anything that makes sense, Y'all will be the first to know


Col. Lang,

There is a process and a coup is never acceptable. That is treason.

But, this may have been a fraud.

As of right now, Erdogan has removed the two last hurdles on his way to absolute, supreme power: holdouts in Turkey's judicial branch and in the army.




You don't usually sound so naïve. Hitler was constitutionally elected. How do you feel about the 20th of July 1944 German Army attempt to overthrow him? pl

The Beaver

@ Willy

This may come in handy:

plus include the following to understand why the two so-called friends split :-)

Babak Makkinejad

Think of them as different alien planets:



Colonel, Please excuse me for responding when you were addressing Cee;
I was moved by the film "Valkyrie" starring Tom Cruz about the attempted
assassination of Hitler. My feeling after watching the film was too bad
they didn't try it sooner & how tragic their brave attempt failed.



They did try it earlier, several times, and failed. pl


Col. I'm sure you're correct. I'll do a bit of research & try to learn more.
I'm aware I'm a real light weight occupying the low end of the learning curve on this committee. It's not a proud position to occupy. Thanks for
allowing me to participate.


Colonel, 13 known attempts. The one with Johann George Elser may have
been in the "Valkyrie" film in the beginning & I forgot about it.

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