« HARPER: RELEASE OF 28 PAGES BEGS DE NOVO INVESTIGATION | Main | "The Latest Craze" By Richard Sale »

15 July 2016

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Brunswick

The Russian Military and the FSB have minimal presence in Turkey's Military and Security Forces, no where near enough to trigger a Coup.

Turkey's Gullen Movement does, but is denying participation,

And NATO's Gladio Movement has been heavily involved in past Coups.

It seems so far, a segment of the Turkish Military in Coup against Ergodan and pro-Jihadi portions of the Military and Security Forces.

steveg

Obama calling on all parties to support the
democratically elected government in Turkey.
"Assad must go" " Ukraine and Nuland"
Did I miss any? "Honduras?"

oofda

Just now on MSNBC, retired General Wesley Clark said that his contacts in the area have told him that 'things are winding down' and that some of the coup leaders have turned themselves in. He opines that this will be over tomorrow.

elaine

I'm not even convinced this coup is real. Switching back & forth from CNN, FOX, BBC
& various net sites I see pics of soldiers "arresting" soldiers & it all looks more
like a base exercise. No bad vibs what so ever, like a dress rehearsal for a play.

Ataturk style soldiers took their oath to uphold Turkey's constitution seriously
(Reflect on the oath the U.S. military takes "to protect & defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign & domestic"...Erdogan was preparing to scrub the military in August.

I almost choked drinking water this afternoon when CNN's Christiane Amonpour implored her audience to respect Erdogan, who she claimed was trying to pattern his government after a U.S. top down rule with a strong president in charge. What?
In other words to hell with the congress, the senate & the courts?? The dems seem all in for Erdogan, just as they were all in for Morsi in Egypt. They seem to think
as long as a leader is democratically elected that it's ok for said leader to
become dictatorial. Checks & balances exist for good reason. Am I becoming too concerned?


walrus

claims now that the coup has failed. If so, dire times for Turkey. Erdogans vengeance is going to be terrible.

Eric Newhill

Brunswick,
I was thinking more of Russia having made post coup agreements with the coup actors so as to assure support going forward more than pulling strings now.

Dubhaltach

Colonel:

Is it just me or does it appear to you also that this was quite badly organised and amateurish?

I have never heard of a successful coup that kicked off during daylight hours as this one appears to have done.

Also the ground troops appear to me to have been conscripts.

Du

turcopolier

Dubhaltacch & Elaine

More later but the supposed "coup" was so badly planned, manned and executed that I am inclined to think that the whole thing was a fraud designed to strengthen Erdogan's hand politically. pl

Brunswick

It would have been bad "OpSec" given the MIT's capabilities for the Coup Group to either approach Russia, or for Russia to approach the possible Coup members, prior to the Coup.

NATO members Military and Intelligence groups, how ever, have day to day contact with Turkish Military and Intelligence.

Peter in Toronto

Political Islam is the death of a secular Turkey.

Even if the coup succeeds, it will not address the growing masses of semi-literate, frothing Islamists seeking to role-play a society that simulates the 7th century life of Mohammad to the letter.

What is needed is reform, which has never happened in the Islamic world since there is no one body of authority on Islamic doctrine, as this blog has very eloquently pointed out several times.

Right now, Islam acts a military doctrine, guide on etiquette, a political party with a sprinkle of mysticism all bundled into one package.

Without reform, there is only darkness for Islamic societies.

doug

One pathetic coup attempt. Haven't seen anything like it since the 1991 Soviet coup attempt. There's a common factor. The decline of the USSR with the Eastern block severing itself without bloodshed had created a great deal of disaffection. Add in rampant corruption and the obvious failure of communism. But the one thing that remained was respect and appreciation for the Soviet military. And then that went South. In the first Gulf War the extremely poor performance of the Soviet arms equipped Iraqis ate away at the public perception of the military. By the time the coup was attempted it simply did not have critical mass. In Turkey's case much of the respect the military has had with it's unique position had been eroded. It seems to me much of this was consciously done by Erdogan as he's moved the country further from what Ataturk created.

Amir

Whether designed by intent or executed with stupidity, based on my childhood experience in Iran, Erdogan will come out of this stronger; if/when the coup fails. He will start his own version of Basij (popular militia) and Pasdaran (parallel army). Sultan is on the verge of either being crowned or putting his neck on the guillotine.

PeteM

The Gulenists seem to be too convenient a target to blame this failed coup on, I thought they were thoroughly purged from the military a few years ago. Russia was the power that had a huge axe to grind with Erdogan and much to gain from his removal even though he was attempting to restore relations.

If my speculation was valid it would probably never be revealed by Erdogan, too embarrassing and too politically sensitive to open that can of worms.

The Virginian

Erdogan will aim to use this as a pretense to move even more aggressively against any and all political, ethnic and religious opposition, and to strengthen his executive powers.

sans racines

It seems fishy - in this day and age if you were planning to do this with intent are you not going to shut down the Internet, landline and mobile comms networks /entirely/ as the first thing you do, rather than just block a few Internet sites?

JMH

If the air force was willing to hit the hotel that sultan HAD been staying at, why would the F-16s not have just shot him down as he was flying into Istanbul? Also, why hit Parliament, when the coup is against the executive?

LondonBob

Never underestimate people's capacity for incompetence, cock-up not conspiracy. My guess is a small clique is the only way to keep it a secret, they must have been hoping for support to emerge as it got under way. A probably necessary gamble that failed. Erdogan forced to use Skype, gun battles on the streets and divisions in society out in the open, not sure Erdogan comes out stronger necessarily.

The Beaver

US consulate says Turkey's Incirlik Air Base has been sealed and the power cut off - CNN

Cee

Daniel,

Plans to mend fences with Assad too. Now who wouldnt want THAT!!

Ishmael Zechariah

Col. Lang, SST;
This issue has nuances which we will understand and discuss over the coming weeks. It solves nothing for tayyip or for Turkey-and might have harmed both significantly.
Ishmael Zechariah

turcopolier

IZ

Was this for real or a carefully staged fraud designed to boost Erdogan before further moves against the constitution? I don't believe any of the numbers I am hearing. They could all be fabricated. pl

Cee

Col. Lang,

This is from Wolfowitz back in 2003...

Wolfowitz in Ankara:
US urges military to overrule Turkish government
By Justus Leicht
24 May 2003

In an interview with the CNN channel Türk he lectured the Turkish government for bowing to public pressure (more than 90 percent of the population opposed the Iraq war) and refusing to allow the stationing of US troops on Turkish territory for the invasion of Iraq. Wolfowitz effectively demanded an apology, saying: “Lets have a Turkey that steps up and says we made a mistake. We should have known how bad things were in Iraq but we know now. Let’s figure out how we can be as helpful as possible to the Americans.”
Even more revealing was his criticism of the Turkish military, which he accused of holding back from forcing the elected government into line: “I think for whatever reason they did not play the strong leadership role on that issue that we would have expected.”
Wolfowitz responded: “I think it’s perfectly appropriate, especially in your system, for the military to say it was in Turkey’s interest to support the United States in that effort.(...) My impression is they didn’t say it with the kind of strength that would have made a difference.”

Michael Rubin was another one. I couldn't believe that Brian Williams interviewed him last night!

Why Are Neocons Attacking Turkey?
To boost support for an attack on Iran, U.S. neoconservatives want Turkey on their side. But that means regime change in Ankara.

..http://fpif.org/why_are_neocons_attacking_turkey/

Let me add another good interview with Sibel Edmonds. She, nor I are supporters of Erdogan or what he has been doing but a coup we do not support.
Sibel Edmonds Explains the CIA's "Reverse Engineering" of Erdogan


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAiAFqXPwZ8&sns=fb

Cee

Willy B,

A Turkish religious movement has secretly funded as many as 200 trips to Turkey for members of Congress and staff since 2008, apparently repeatedly violating House rules and possibly federal law, a USA TODAY investigation has found.

The group — a worldwide moderate Islamic movement led by a religious scholar named Fethullah Gülen — has been accused by the Turkish government of attempting a coup in that country. Turkish leaders have asked the United States to extradite Gülen from the remote compound in rural Pennsylvania where he has lived for 20 years.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/10/29/turkish-faith-movement-secretly-funded-200-trips-lawmakers-and-staff/74535104/

Cee

oofda,

He was hilarious last night when he was talking about all the ways that this hasfailed. He brought up the attempted coup in Panama. The plotter gave Noreiga his gun and Noreiga promptly shot him.

Cee

elaine,

Very real. Perhaps some thought it was a drill and found out to their dismay that they were ordered into treason. I've seen the dead and the bloody young soldiers. I hope Erdogan has mercy on them.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

December 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31    
Blog powered by Typepad