"We're proud of that!" You are?

 

In last night's verbal savagery in Brooklyn there were several striking moments.

Hillary Clinton's pandering to the supposed "toughness" of the denizens of New York City was pathetic in its demonstration of her universal appeals to any group that might ever have thought itself wronged.  Well, pilgrims, I suppose we expect that of her now.

But the very "best" was the moment frozen in time for me in which Sanders, in the sure knowledge that this would hurt him politically, told the audience that the 10,000 Palestinians wounded and 1500 Palestinian dead at Gaza in 2014 was a "disproportionate response" to the garage built rockets fired into Israel from Gaza.

A voice in the crowd then cried out "We are proud of that!"  The voice seemed to be that of a woman.  My wife thinks it was a woman.

She is proud of that?  I can understand that one might think this butchery was necessary, but how can a human, any human, be proud of something like that?

Is there anything that could be done to the Palestinians that the voice in the crowd would not be proud of?  Please tell me that we did not understand what she said.  pl  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict

Comments

[David Habakkuk]

All,

It is difficult for a 'Brit' to make sense of how these matters 'work out' in the United States, because the elements that are similar can disguise profound differences.

But what I see in Sanders is a tension which is all too apparent to me in old Jewish friends here: between a commitment to Israel which is very difficult to shed, and a horror at what that country has been becoming.

What I have difficulty in grasping, however, is how any kind of coherent strategy can underpin the 'we are proud of that' response.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, we accept that Netanyahu is right.

So, Iran is Amalek, prepared to accept any risk, including its own annihilation, in order to destroy 'the Jews'. Let us further suppose that he is right about the Palestinians. So, according to Netanyahu's version, Hitler was really only a kind of garden-variety 'ethnic cleanser', until he met the Grand Mufti.

One then has to confront the crucial fact that there are two theoretically quite distinct – if in practice commonly overlapping – justifications for Zionism.

On the one hand, there is the ethno-nationalist and religious strand: the eternal bonds of the 'Jewish people' to their 'ancestral homeland'; on the other, there is the notion of a necessary refuge of Jews from the threat of persecution by the 'goyim'.

If indeed one believes in the fanatical determination of all Muslims to annihilate Jews, how can one possibly suggest that these can have a safe refuge in the Middle East? So Netanyahu's version of Zionism is, patently, moronic.

And then to compound the felony one has that sleazy little man Jeffrey Goldberg, producing an article entitled 'Is it Time for the Jews to Jews to Leave Europe?'

(See http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/ .)

Where, one has to ask, does he expect our Jewish friends to go? Perhaps they should 'make aliyah' to Israel, among all those genocidal Muslims. But none of our Jewish friends display the least desire to do so – and not simply, or indeed primarily, because of the risks.

It would seem then that for Goldberg their only alternative is to join him in the United States.

But then, although it may be difficult for Goldberg to understand, not all Jews go through life furtively looking around in expectation that the 'goyim' will recover their inner Nazi and send them off to concentration camps.

And not all British Jews would be happy to live in the United States. Some, oddly enough, have their homes here.

[Ishmael Zechariah]

Colonel,
You have remarked many times on SST that the great majority ofcombat soldiers will do what is necessary, but do not glory in killing. Your story about the rabbit and the bird(?) colonel who was planning on gassing it as a demonstration has always been a favorite of mine.

Some civilians, on the other hand (along with some REMFs, seem to lack such restraint and decency. Some of the worst of these have been women. Here is a joke as narrated by Uri Avnery:
"...the Jewish mother in Russia taking leave of her son, who has been called up to serve the Czar in the war against Turkey. “Don’t overexert yourself’” she implores him, “Kill a Turk and rest. Kill another Turk and rest again…”

“But mother,” the son interrupts, “What if the Turk kills me?”

“You?” exclaims the mother, “But why? What have you done to him?”

The current izzies are much, much worse than this old woman. To them Arabs are sub-human. They will learn otherwise some day.

Ishmael Zechariah

[Swerv21]

Colonel:

I did not see this, but thank you for calling attention to this. I will definitely go back and check this out for myself.

The level of casual insanity and cruelty people are willing to indulge themselves in just boggles the mind.

[The Beaver]

Colonel,

We have come to a point where Palestinians = Muslims and as such they should be destroyed:

a good example that the woman in the crowd would be proud of:

https://mobile.twitter.com/basemn63/status/720893873241739264/photo/1

Those NYers must be the followers of the like of Pamela Geller
Plus look at what the "mob" can demand:

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/14/bernie-sanders-suspends-jewish-outreach-coordinator-after-reports-of-her-criticisms-of-israel/

[A chorus of Jewish figures, including Abe Foxman, the president emeritus of the Anti-Defamation League, had joined Mr. Hoenlein in calling for Ms. Zimmerman’s firing. The final straw was a report on Wednesday in the Washington Free Beacon, which found a Facebook post in which she used a vulgarity and described Mr. Netanyahu as “arrogant, deceptive, cynical” and “manipulative.” She then used more aggressive language and continued that he had “sanctioned the murder of over 2,000 people this summer.”]

[Farmer Don]

Was this Hillary last night?

https://twitter.com/IraqiSecurity/status/720812830379929600

[oofda]

Colonel,
Sorry to say, but you both probably clearly understood what the woman said. I am on travel overseas and didn't see this, but it comports what so many Israelis feel about the Paletinians. There have been a spate of articles in Haaretz and other publications on how Jewish Israelis harbor such racist attiudes toward Arab and Palestinian Israelis. A prominent member of parliament objected to his wife giving birth to their child in a ward with Palestinians. His wife didn't even want Palestiniaan or Arab hospital workers around hers.
Here is the Haaretz article that notes Sanders' comments but doesn't menton the woman's shouting. Unless serious attitude changes are made, this won't end well.

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/u-s-election-2016/1.714602

[different clue]

The number of primary votes that Sanders gets from NY Jewish voters would be the best measure of how many Jews are so not-proud-of-that as to vote for Sanders. It would be worth seeing what the numbers are.

I will speculate that "Proud of That" Woman means something like "we were weak and helpless and now we are strong and self-defensible". And she isn't looking/feeling any deeper than that.

An interesting project for an investigative journalist would be to find that particular woman and ask her in detail just exactly "what" it is about "that" which makes her the most proud.

[Babak Makkinejad]

I personally have a rather modest proposal; given the Love-Hate relationship among Men.

I think it will be a good idea to allocate 0.01 percent of the Earth's gross product to the development of all that is necessary to colonize the Earth-like planets of the galaxy (those with moons like the Earth's Moon).

In this manner, all nations, ethno-linguistic and ethno-religious people of Earth can leave the Earth - hopefully forever - where they can colonize

There would be a semi-arid, desert planet, for Arab tribes in which they can live in their tents and fight with one another for eternity.

There could be a planet for Sikhs, several planets for Kurds, etc.

Of course, people like Jains will likely go extinct without the labor of untouchables and low-cast Hindus.

There can even be a series of planets for the United States; with each federal state occupying an entire planet.

And so on and so forth.

And of course, let us not forget Freedonia I for doper-heads, Freedonia II for Homosexuals, Hedonism I and Hyper-Hedonia.

And the coordinates of each settled planet will be kept from others; the Iran Planet would not wish its location to be known to US, UK, and other agents of the Great Satan.

And Germans can have 2 or 3 planets to occupy and live their lives in order and in peace.

And the Shoah Cultists and their fellow travelers could remain here on Earth - free of the "Goyim".

But, and here is the piece of human nature that is often overlooked - what would all these people do in various planets if there is nobody around them against whom they could feel superior?

I think this is a very sensible proposal.

[Seamus]

I'd also contest that the slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza was a "response" to rocket fire. It was a premeditated attack under the "mowing the lawn" doctrine.

[my.comment]

sanders has been pretty consistent wrt to the comments re the palestinians that is resulting in efforts to destroy his support among jews, esp in nyc.

just yesterday his campaign suspended a young staffer for a year old facebook comment critical of netanyahu. several jewish orgs criticized him for that and demanded action. if they're going thru facebook postings of staffers, you can be sure sanders is being targeted.

http://gawker.com/bernie-sanders-suspends-staffer-for-criticizing-israeli-1771110775

this is a pretty decent column on just what is developing:

http://gothamist.com/2016/04/15/bernie_sanders_jewish_politics.php

[turcopolier]

Seamus

I would agree with that. The chain of events that summer led to a Jewish desire for revenge and they took it. pl

[505thPIR]

"But the very "best" was the moment frozen in time for me in which Sanders, in the sure knowledge that this would hurt him politically, told the audience that the 10,000 Palestinians wounded and 1500 Palestinian dead at Gaza in 2014 was a "disproportionate response" to the garage built rockets fired into Israel from Gaza."

Sanders has substance and soul under-grid by courage, real courage and not the True Believer intractability of a Ted Cruz. A rare politician indeed. A litmus test for the nation. Pass this one by and there may be no going back. We shall see.

Many of the Plains Indians measured their greatness by the greatness of their enemies. It is interesting to see that many entrenched, very powerful interests and Borgist media have gone from ignoring him, to ridiculing him to now outright attacking him and the ideas he represents. Will he be defeated? We shall see.

[Matthew]

Ah, to be Palestinian is to granted a front-row seat to humanity's dark heart. The settlements are illegal and the Occupation unjust, yet:

1. If you resist Israel's violent occupation, you are a terrorist.

2. If you resist the Occupation at the UN, you are irresponsible and guilty of "diplomatic terrorism."

3. If you attempt to organize a consumer boycott of Israel, you can be criminally charged in France, dubbed an anti-Semite in America, and jailed by the Israelis.

Oh, and Hillary Clinton has promised AIPAC to use her power as President to defeat your consumer boycott. That's right. An American candidate wants to punish Americans because they don't want to engage a foreign state. Lovely.

And if that isn't enough, Hamas runs the Gaza prison and the Abbas's 4-year term is apparently counted using the length of Pluto's orbit.

[ked]

"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency ... At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

These days the question is raised to many, too many people & peoples. Sadly, they respond "No, I want more, much more!"

[Allen Thomson]

> There can even be a series of planets for the United States; with each federal state occupying an entire planet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Planet_for_Texans

https://archive.org/stream/lonestarplanet20121gut/pg20121.txt

[AK]

David
"If indeed one believes in the fanatical determination of all Muslims to annihilate Jews, how can one possibly suggest that these can have a safe refuge in the Middle East? So Netanyahu's version of Zionism is, patently, moronic."

Unless, of course, an unspoken tenet of Netanyahu's version of Zionism is a Middle East devoid of (or "cleansed of" if you will) all those peoples who would present an existential threat to Jews in their homeland.

A hypothetical: if one proposed such a concept to the general public in Israel (couched in softer terms not explicitly suggestive of another certain "cleansing"), a startling proportion might consider it for a moment, nod in approval, and say "I suppose that would be nice, wouldn't it?" The irony is truly heartbreaking...

[Jack]

Sir

We have an interesting election season. The 2 candidates with any enthusiastic support among voters are being dismissed as being crazy and unrealistic by the "serious" people. Half of all negative advertising spent has been directed against Trump. It shows the degree of concern among the political and financial elite that they would pull out all the stops to discredit Sanders and Trump. In my Democrat dominated state the bumper sticker indicator of enthusiasm is running 20:1 in favor of Sanders. The few Hillary voters I have met only plan to vote for her since she can win. I think that is her big selling point and the fact that many want the status quo.

If the Borg queen wins in November as is desired by the big money elites and ziocons then we'll continue to be in the morass of failed foreign interventions, off-shoring of middle class jobs and erosion of rule of law.

I don't know how the under 29s and white working class who will not doubt feel disenfranchised will react to the brazen corruption and more wars in the next 4 years.

[turcopolier]

jack

IMO if the Borg Queen wins she will be easily seduced into foreign interventions. The admirals will stroke her a bit, blow on her to fluff up her fur and we will then have a confrontation with China. Alternatively, she will send American soldiers to search central Africa for "the girls." pl

[jsn]

I'm afraid it takes a periodical "children's crusade" to sustain civilization: as we grow older, particularly those of us insulated from real hardship, we frequently lose our human perspective, moral creativity tempered from deep empathy.

You see this loss constantly in the Borg, hopes for Russian deaths, hopes for others "quagmires" etc.

Not one of our better traits as a species, but we must learn this hate and resentment, and occasionally our children don't.

[Jack]

Sir

I'm convinced you are correct. This is my personal nightmare as my young boy in his youthful idealism is gung-ho to enlist. I don't want to lose him on some distant shore to satisfy the bloodlust of the Borg Queen. Her "we came; we saw; he died" callous laughter displays a cold-hearted venality that is unprecedented in recent times.

[Kooshy]

I wish some one would tell me, in this day and age, why in this country we would need to have delegates to represent the us the voters. I believe in one man one vote and direct vote. This curent system was set for time, when there was no instant communication from and by the voters, in old days, some times voting time was as long as a month long today you one the results even before any vote is cast. Like any other functioning service, democracy also needs a functioning, modern, up to date infrastructure, ours is too outdated and needs to be changed, is time to upgrade this democracy' infrastructue, IMO it's time for direct vote and runoffs. If it was one man one vote and direct vote, and no super delegates, Sander was not that behind or Trump wouldn't be threten to loose the second ballet at the convention. It will be a very difficult battle with a lot of demonstrations, riots, civil disobideance, if ever, this nation can put a fork in the eye of the Borg.

[Kooshy]

Colonel, I love it, you have a new original the "Borg queen" I really think there is no better discription for the former First Lady of Arkansas, US, Santor from NY, Secretary of State, twice candidate for presidency of this United States,my ou name it there is no high profile national positio. that this lady didn't wish for and didn't get. She truly is the queen of the Borg.

Thank you for this perfect said discription

[Kooshy]

I don't know much about him, Sanders, if he ever gets the chance to get elected, I just hope he is not another empty suite like this curent president.

[Jag Pop]

Perhaps it *is* me. But I do not understand why Zionist participation in The Holocaust is so ignored.

The leaders of the Jewish community in Hungary were Zionists - the *trusted* leaders.

In full knowledge of their fate these leaders sent those that trusted them onto the trains to Auschwitz. Hundreds of thousands got on the trains believing what their leaders were telling them, that they were going to a place of safety. Yet the leaders knew otherwise.

The Zionist leaders were working for the Nazis. Their reward was a different train for them and their chosen few to begin their passage to Palestine.

Later these same treacherous Zionists became leaders in the new state of Israel.
When their deeds were exposed the government, of which they were a part, used the full force of it's judicial system to protect and exonerate them.

What am I missing? Why is this piece of history ignored? Is it's importance and relevance nothing? ...so puzzling...

Col., delete this if you see fit. (I know you would anyways, that is your prerogative and I will try to understand if you do) But before you do, please Google this: Rudolf Kasztner: The verdict of Judge Benjamin Halevi)

I won't post about this bit of history again if you believe it is out of line.

[SAC Brat]

Are some Palestinians Christian? If so, why is this not brought up? Are settlements being built on land taken from Christians?