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22 March 2016


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What is too funny to observe is that the actual Jewish person running seriously for American President, Bernard Sanders, is not speaking before AIPAC.


She had been closely drilled in maintaining a level non-shrill tone throughout and only shouted at the end: got thrown by sound of audience applause/cheers and misunderestimated mic amplification effects.

I missed the pandering - What did she say? Not much. I thought it was an orgy of blandissimal (bland dial cranked up to 11) generalities.

"Old men are doomed to sexism." Justifiably!!!

Babak Makkinejad

Col. Lang:

I agree, Trump was doubtlessly mocking them; likely holding them in deep contempt as well.

William R. Cumming

IMO Israel a Clear and Present danger and at best a far outpost of the American Empire!

Perhaps will regain utility as it [Israel] confronts the new power in the MED--Russia and its Israeli linked OC {organized crime]!

William R. Cumming

Am I correct that no formal treaty exists between the U.S. and Israel and No U.S. President or Congress since 1948 has supported U.S. guarantees of post-1948 Israeli border modifications?



Yes. No treaty exists. Israel has never wanted one because it ouls inevitably involve obligations to the US. pl


"Perhaps will regain utility as it [Israel] confronts the new power in the MED--Russia and its Israeli linked OC {organized crime]!"

I think you've got Geo-strategic setup wrong.

The Beaver

@ ambrit
However, he is also pandering:



Trump is exactly the president we deserve.

And he gave AIPAC the type of speech they deserve.

When you demand subservience, you get deceit.



Is our sexism justifiable or is it our damnation that is justifiable? pl

robt willmann


A good book on Russian organized crime is "Red Mafiya, How the Russian Mob Has Invaded America", by Robert I. Friedman. It was published in 2000. Around that time I gave a copy to a man who had been a Russian specialist at the NSA and he liked it.




Possibly so... but I think it's even simpler than that. Trumps goal is to be president, so he is doing everything he perceives is necessary to achieve that goal. His own political history shows no foundational loyalty to either party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Political_affiliations

I will hazard a guess that 90% (?) of what he says on the campaign trail is pandering to some group or another to get their support so he can achieve his goal of being president. That is a very practical business/marketing/sales approach to politics. He also knows how to play to the media circus... he's a political Ringmaster http://www.insidejobs.com/careers/circus-ringmaster


Both. The damnation of such things keeps them in check.



mysterious. p


Did you hear the latest where the Saudis are so enamored with AIPACS success that they're creating their own



It could be said that stating anything other than Israel is in continual violation of international law and does not deserve the diplomatic or military cover provided by the US, and that its leaders are guilty of war crimes is pandering.

Having said that, though Sanders' position is not my own, I think his election would produce a far better Israeli policy than anyone else's. That may not be saying much.


I think the lower pitch of the male voice is more effective with an attempted stemwinder than a female's.

Outrage Beyond

I notice that some Israelis and Israel-Firsters like to cite Israel's designation as a "Major Non-NATO Ally" in response to the "no treaty exists" statement.

Looking at the Wikipedia article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_non-NATO_ally, the whole thing appears to be another end-run by Congress to let the President do what Congress should do (or not do). A dodgy designation which "does not automatically include a mutual defense pact with the United States."

Within that article is a statement that as of 2014, Israel is a "Major Strategic Partner" which the Jerusalem Post describes as a "new class of ally." http://www.jpost.com/International/US-House-of-Representatives-passes-bill-declaring-Israel-major-strategic-partner-383616

Obviously, many on this site, myself included, don't consider Israel an ally. Which is why these apparent legal fig leaves are troubling at best.


Concerning her voice. HRC seems to be having a significant problem. Today, she made a statement about the Belgian bombings and her normal speaking voice was just terrible if it is compared to about a year ago. Even when speaking at a normal level, there is a harshness and hoarseness that seems to be getting worse by the week. Her voice is really over strained. The campaign is breaking her vocal cords.


And it would require a specific definition and limitation of Israel's borders. They wouldn't want that. But we cannot enter into a mutual defense agreement with a country with which we do not clearly know its borders.


muddle on my part. was cheering and waving the contra-PC banner.

Bill Herschel

He condemns the U.N. in his speech.

And then there's this, "So what if I have properties in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudi Arabia – and if I partner with them and with Kuwait and the Emirates..."

He goes on and on about Iran sponsoring international terrorism.

In sum, it doesn't matter who is elected President. To Hell with the U.N. and God Bless The King of Saudi Arabia.

You would think that Europe would wake up. ISIS is not a Shia outfit.

Time to turn away from all this.


Beaver: Bernie's speech was far more even balanced than any serious modern president, and in any case, actual jews dont pander to AIPAC, they are conflicted. Its the basic indoctrination from early childhood versus rationality, and dont believe that rationale people lead purely rationale lives.

For the record, I prefer Bernie, but will vote Trump against Hillary.


Makes Obama's lack of pandering look pretty good, doesn't it.


The way he puts it Beaver, may make all the difference:

"To my mind, as friends – long term friends with Israel – we are obligated to speak the truth as we see it. That is what real friendship demands, especially in difficult times. "

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