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10 March 2016

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SmoothieX12

Today, some. How large is the number--I don't know. I am sure the site of FMS (Federal Migration Service) has some data, but Russia does conduct massive illegal migrants sweeps and deports them, no questions asked. No registration--one is gone once caught.

Tyler

WRC,

Indeed.

Tyler

DC,

Your moral posturing and virtue signaling doesn't change the fact that we have no obligation to absorb Mexico's indignant population.

Please list your address so I can ship them to your neighborhood TIA.

Tyler

DC,

Your ridiculous argument here though is not a full spectrum approach but shrugging your shoulders, shouting 102 FOOT LADDER and then spouting some Marxist struggle nonsense.

Tyler

Kao,

Mexicans have and are in the process of building a border wall with Guats - the same kind of wall that gives them fits and they cry RAYCISS about when the US talks about building it.

Not to mention what they do to Central Americans they catch on the way through the country. Of course when one of their drug dealing, raping, citizens is shot after throwing fist size chunks of slate at Border Patrol agents they're the first ones to cry about brutality.

Tyler

Smoothie,

Another reason to vote the Trump-Putin ticket. Be still my beating heart.

Tyler

Lefty,

That 11m number spit out by the government hasn't changed in over a decade. The real number is more likely over 20m.

Babak Makkinejad

A fantasy does not a reality make; Men cannot hold their drugs - this much has been clear now as well as in past historical episodes.

As for drug-testing; yes, I resent it. Why should there be a presumption of drug use and thus infringement of my rights to my person & body because others like to use drugs?

Why must we carry the burden of those junkies, dope-heads, meth-heads etc.

I understand that they want to be free to do that which they wish.

To facilitate that, I suggested setting aside parts of the world as Freedonia Ashrams - people can go there and use drugs to their hearts content while there rest of us will be rid of them.

I believe that is a more sensible proposition than the experiment that you are suggesting since my experiment only affects drug users in those Ashrams and not the rest of society.

Kyle Pearson

There would be absolutely NO illegal workers in the US if there were no employers offering them jobs.

Fine the employers, and the workers will go find someplace where they can find employment - which won't be in the US.

Kyle Pearson

Yes, indeed - i was hoping someone else would make this point.

Currently, illegal immigration rates have declined to about where they were in 2004.

This chart from PEW gives a good overview, and we would all do well to take notice of when it started skyrocketing: 1995, right when NAFTA took force.

NAFTA devastated the Mexican economy, mainly by forcing the government to open up agriculture and other basic industries to US corporations, who immediately moved in and created plantation-style slavery on their corporate farms, or sweatshop-style slavery in their factories. The LA Times came out with an excellent report and analysis on this - farmworkers in Mexico are often confined to dormitories they must rent, and forced to purchase all of their personal goods from company stores, all while working in barbed-wire encircled enclosures with armed guards patrolling the perimeter.

NAFTA was utterly devastating to the small-holder farmers, and it certainly wasn't because they were "anachronistic" businesses, but because the US - via NAFTA - forcibly destroyed the protections in place to support those farms and allowed exploitative corporations to move in and in many cases literally enslave entire families through a combination of contractual obligations and below-subsistence wages.

It seems to me that since the US was the main proponent of NAFTA; and since it was north American corporations which devastate the farming communities and farming families in the first place; and since our own immigration bureaus turn a blind eye to employers in the US who wish to exploit illegal immigrants for cheap labor that can be purchased without providing even the most rudimentary benefits and protections; then it is we in the US who bear the lion's share of responsibility for creating the immigration situation we find ourselves in - certainly not the illegal immigrants themselves. As i said above: Latino immigrants are generally among the most honest, hardworking, sincere, family-minded people i've ever known in the US, and i am certain that if they had good alternatives to traveling across the border for work they would quickly choose those, rather than the risky and dangerous path of coming across the border as an illegal worker.

In any event, though: illegal immigration is slowly dropping off, and has been for about the last eight years.

If we held corporate American to the same standards we once did - back in the 50s and 60s - and ended our companies' exploitative business practices in Mexico and Latin America, then illegal immigration would drop off as sharply and dramatically as it went up, following NAFTA.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/

Babak Makkinejad

I am not suggesting a one-way trip to Freedonia; surely people could repent.

turcopolier

Kyle Pearson

As I wrote before I do not care what the numbers of immigrants are or what the trend is or what would be just about the plight of Mexican peasants beggared by NAFTA. I am a protectionist and was always opposed to NAFTA. What I care about is enforcing the integrity of US borders and immigration law. pl

turcopolier

Kyle Pearson

You obviously like the sound of your own voice and have not been paying attention to the discussion here of punishing employers who hire illegals. pl

different clue

Kyle Pearson,

Since Mulroney (and then I think Chretien) of Canada were equally involved in pushing very hard for NAFTA, perhaps Canada should be considered co-responsible for the Mexican component of the illegal immigration problem. Since Canada has a tenth of the population of America, perhaps Canada should take in a tenth of the illegal Mexican aliens . . . which would be about a million people?

different clue

Did I ever say we had an obligation to accept them? If anyone can find something I wrote now or in the past to the effect that I think we are obliged to accept them and keep them, they can copy-paste it here and embarrass me with it pretty good.

If you can demonstrate any moral posturing or virtue signaling in any specific language of mine in this thread, please feel free to do so in detail. I suspect you use the phrases "moral posturing" and "virtue signaling" as epithets of ridicule and misdirection rather than terms of art or terms of analysis. And if my noting that millions of them were driven out of Mexico by a NAFTA designed to destroy their livelihoods there seems conservatively incorrect and distasteful to your sense of conservative moral posturing and conservative virtue signaling, that doesn't change the fact that millions of them were indeed driven out by NAFTA-driven destruction of their livelihoods in Mexico. And I suspect part of sending them back and keeping them successfully back there would have to involve abolishing NAFTA and setting Mexico free to re-protectionise its economy and quite possibly restore the village ejido system of land control and restoration of formerly village lands back to the villages and villagers . . . so they could resume their former farming livelihoods in a re-protectionised Mexico.

Meanwhile, many illegals already come all the way up here anyway, without your kind offer of assistance to them TIA.

Valissa

"Men cannot hold their drugs"

No Babak, that is NOT true according to all scientific studies done on the matter. What is true is the some people cannot hold their drugs.

“Most people who experiment with drugs, then, do not become addicted. So who is at risk?”
Who Falls to Addiction, and Who Is Unscathed? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/health/02abuse.html?_r=0

Reality Check – Most Don’t Become Addicted http://www.thecleanslate.org/reality-check-most-dont-become-addicted/

Many People Use Drugs – But Here’s Why Most Don’t Become Addicts http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/many-people-use-drugs-here-s-why-most-don-t-become-addicts

Why only some people become addicted to drugs: Scans of cocaine users reveal brain shape could be to blame http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2264596/Why-people-addicted-drugs-Scans-cocaine-users-reveal-shape-brain-blame.html

different clue

Tyler,

And what is specifically Marxist struggle in my comment? In detail? Is Marxist a term of art and term of analysis or just an epithet of derision?

I think I've been as comprehensive as I know how. Border control AND total suppression of illegal employment in America AND abolishing NAFTA to allow Mexico to reprotectionise its economy and restore the destroyed livings and opportunities which existed there pre-NAFTA. Some have suggested banning any further granting of benefits to any further illegals and even the full stoppage of benefits to illegals already here. ( Though questions arise over whether it is fair to expel or dis-benefit people who were brought here by parents when they were too young to even understand the implications of being brought here . . . Dream Act and so forth).
Nonsense? I don't think so but . . . okay fine. But Marxist? Specifically how exactly?

Shouting 102 FOOT LADDER is figurative and metaphorical to indicate that as long as the Mexican economy/society remains a pile of smoking wreckage and the American economy offers something to flee to, illegals will keep making every effort and try defeating every security barrier to come here. Barrier by itself will not be enough. Combining it with permabanning unlawful employment here and abolishing NAFTA to permit Mexico to restore opportunity in Mexico may all work together to reverse the flow. They all deserve to be tried together so they enhance eachother.

different clue

And no, I don't mean the drug dealers and paid maimers and killers and any rapists who may be among them. Those should be focused on specially and in parallel. They are not the "millions of displaced farmers" of whom I speak.

Babak Makkinejad

Addiction is only a single negative consequence; there are also permanent alterations to the brain.


Please see here:

http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/brain/133/7/2098.full.pdf

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/34/16/5529.full.pdf+html

And many many more such studies.

You guys are in denial.

different clue

Babak Makkinejad,

Again, what drugs are you talking about specifically?
Caffeine? Cannabis?
As if they were meth/opiates/cocaine/etc.?

William R. Cumming

IMO both history and economics more subjective than objective!

William R. Cumming

Does Canada make its census data public? Does it count its dual citizens?

William R. Cumming

And "Freedom"?

William R. Cumming

And benefits/costs of immigration--legal/illegal?

William R. Cumming

Well P.L. just in case you announce your availability [perhaps as a write-in]!

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