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10 March 2016

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turcopolier

Babak

IMO we Gringos would be benefited from more belief in magic which is, after all, the essence of the Catholicism that you admire as a worthy form of Christianity. IMO more Latino culture in the US would make us better creatures of the post Diocletian line West. If you want to see what that would be like go see San Antonio, Texas where the two are truly blended. pl

mbrenner

Pat,

With all due respect, Mexico is not an entirely sovereign country. Americans directly run significant sections of their national police and anti-drug operations. We also have agents on the ground. Moreover, we intervene in their national politics by providing money on a selective basis and timing various policy initiatives to improve the odds on our favorites' winning. We also look the other way when a close election is rigged as occurred two elections back. Moreover, we let it be known that there will be severe negative economic consequences if the present clique is kicked out of office by reformist politicians. We've done the same in recent years in Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguay and Venezuela as well as Honduras and Panama. We succeeded in three of those places. Every literate person in Latin America is apprised of this reality.

No "get home free card" since I would issue dated ID to everyone already in the country and disqualify everyone who arrives after that date. Again, is there a palatable alternative?

Generalfeldmarschall von Hindenburg

Isn't this problem mostly the result of decades of neoliberal economics which shifted millions of Mexicans into the "Free Trade Zones" in order to easily export US industrial jobs to low wage/no benefit Mexico. Then when China promised cheaper labor still (and more repressive labor policies), the resultant collapse of the Maquilladora zone resulted in the rampant and extreme violence that has characterized Mexico ever since. We keep hearing about how it's the result of some sort of turf war in the smack trade, but I'm not so sure. I know illegal Mexican immigrants and they just tell me there's literally no chance to better yourself in Mexico no matter how hard you work. There's a feudal system there that's upheld with the most savage repressive violence. I agree with all the comments about the nature of a country's frontiers (we're not really a 'nation') but as long as small to medium sized businesses employ multitudes of these people, and as long as entitled rich see no harm in taking on an illegal maid (how many politicians get nailed with this!?) and as long as Mexico is riven with beheadings, assassinations, immolation of protesting university students and the like, it's not a problem that will be going away. Unless you have a Berlin Wall style wall. That works, but it isn't consistent with all the pap we tell ourselves about what a paragon of republican virtue we are.

turcopolier

Michael

I never realized that you subscribed to the puppeteer theory of American relations with the rest of the world. To think that that the US controls Mexico is absurd. People used to say that the US controlled the Philippines after independence. Did you believe that as well? People thought that we controlled Egypt, Libya and many other countries with which we had economic relations. Do you think we controlled them? pl

elaine

Colonel, "IMO a union of the two countries would be altogether appropriate, but
that will never happen". I suspect we are much closer to the realization of
the North American Union than most people realize & much closer to what the globalists refer to as "The Americas". SmoothieX12 elaborated beautifully on the forces in play that have contempt for the nation state, for any type of sovereignty.

What would you be willing to sacrifice to unite the U.S. with Mexico? I suspect
a good bit of the U.S. Constitution would be on the chopping block. Honestly, I
must admit you shocked me by advocating combining the two countries.


Bill H

mbrenner
"... to everyone already in the country and disqualify everyone who arrives after that date." We did that in 1986. A "one time amnesty"<.i> means little if you keep doing it over and over again.

Old Microbiologist

None, just the US Embassy there put it all together in one place the information which is, perhaps deliberately, very difficult to figure out at the DoS website.

Old Microbiologist

At the moment it is a misdemeanor as enacted by Congress. It is not me who decided it is not a serious crime but rather similar to an excessive speeding ticket. Although in some jurisdictions exceeding the speed limit by 20 mph is a felony. I am not certain that is what the candidates have defined as a criminal record. Each seems to have their own definition.

Old Microbiologist

Refugees are another status altogether and they chose to accept them. They can equally choose to get rid of them as Jordan did to the Palestinians. This is the part of the subject that is fogging up the discussion. A refugee status has several very specific requirements and you must be fleeing persecution or fear of the threat on your life. But, you have to come directly and cannot be fleeing a country already providing safe harbor. For example, Syrians who fled out of Syria into Turkey and have been living there for ears are not fleeing for their lives when they leave Turkey so are not eligible for refugee status. The same is true for the vast majority of people south of the US border. There are periodically peoples who need refugee status such as we saw after VietNam or the Christians and Muslims in China. There are peoples in the Middle East who qualify as well and some, who do not shred their passports as George Soros' "Guide to Being a Refugee" (being handed to thousands of people in the Middle East refugee camps) tells them to do, actually get it.

Yes, I was referring to the hikers as one example, but there are many. As is typical for governments they pick and choose who to punish. There are many other examples of countries that have harsh punishments for border violations. North Korea is perhaps the worst. I did not mean to imply that the 2 countries are similar in any other way.

Old Microbiologist

Yes, you are correct and I agree with you. But, we have to decide whether we want open borders or not. If so, then that needs to be done correctly and not accept just any Tom, Dick, and Harry. The US is by definition a nation of immigrants. Often, these were the worst possible candidates so we do have a history of doing this. We also need to pump up the Ponzi scheme we call Social Security and one way to do that is to increase the labor pool and taxpayer base. It risks an overpopulation and unemployment problem though. If we were actually experience the economic recovery our government claims has occurred, then we wouldn't have 94 million work eligible Americans with no jobs (which demonstrates the lies about unemployment statistics). On top of that we have a serious problem with dumbing down Americans with an increasingly crappified education system. I have 2 kids who recently graduated from good Universities and their education is laughable.

One thing Trump said which rarely gets the correct context is about barring Muslims from immigration into the US. That has been a misquoted statement. What he was saying, and I agree with him, is that the US government has proven incapable of vetting people from the Middle East correctly (actually from anywhere), so all immigrants should be blocked from entry until we get a system in place that actually works. It is the exact same problem in Europe which they are now discovering is an obvious problem.

Old Microbiologist

Exactly, the US is a consumer based economy. No jobs means no purchasing. The idiots in major corporations seem to lack the foresight to understand this issue. They want it all now and damn the future.

William R. Cumming

IMO over 5 million currently reside in the U.S.A. having overstayed their visas with another million currently residing without Green Cards that did not overstay their visas but had come to the USA from visa waiver countries. IMO the Project Visit IT effort mandated by statute has spent almost $2-3B and completely failed. Thoughts? Corrections?

And then of course student visas?

Tyler

Good grief, some of you as exposing yourselves really hard as the virtue signaling idiots who have no clue what you're talking about other than to repeat progressive shibboleths tonight.

First, the idea of "HURR 100 FOOT WALL 101 FOOT LADDER CHECK MATE BIGOT" is stupid and farcical, and displays that the person crowing this has no idea how border security works. The idea behind a wall is to slow down the entry of illegals who don't just walk across the border en masse and make it more difficult for them to enter. Climbing over a wall is such a thing. I can't believe that I have to explain this to some of you, but here we are.

Two, "HURR ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS ARE THE PROBLEM" is deflection hand-waving bullsh-t. Tell the parents of Kathryn Steinle "HEY IT WAS THE FAULT OF THOSE EVIL EMPLOYERS" and let me know how it goes. Or the illegal alien who shot five people across Kansas and Missouri for example - yeah it wasn't an "illegal employer". It reeks of more Marxist class struggle nonsense. There is a very real social and economic cost to illegal aliens, who DO get welfare and social benefits, who drive up medical costs using ERs as the doctor's office, and who think drunk driving is a fun past time.

Three, illegal immigration isn't "going down" unless your idea of counting illegals is to stick your fingers in your ears and go LA LA LA I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING. In fact, if you want to go back you can see stories about "illegal aliens returning" every year, along with the famous "crops rotting in the field" stories that always appear where farmers tell us that we need to import more serfs because, dang it, Americans don't want to squat to crap in strawberry fields.

Same old Marxist class struggle song and dance from the same Fellow Travelers around here, not shocked. The road to actually having a country goes through deporting as many people as possible. I personally look forward to doing my part to Making America Great Again.

Mac

US immigration laws are civil in nature.It is not a violation of our criminal laws if/when a FN violates our countrys immigration laws.

Mac

Depending in the Circuit law where one is detained, the rules vary as to when a FN can challenge their custody status.

There is a lot of variation in the controlling case law that would surprise even most Americans.


turcopolier

Elaine

the terms of the "deal" uniting the two countries would of course be negotiable. pl

Peter Reichard

The illegals are here because we want them to be here, a bipartisan state policy of class warfare waged on blue collar workers like myself.The value of undocumented workers lies not only in the law of supply and demand driving down wages but is primarily in their illegality itself.This makes them the perfect workers in a capitalist utopia, a form of virtual offshoring where the threat of deportation causes them to accept lower wages,workplace safety and labor rights thus undercutting our
living standards and all of the progress we have made from over a century of strikes and fighting it out in the streets to obtain a fair deal from the system.Yet they too are victims, unwitting pawns in the class war.For this reason and because I don't want to see the police state tactics necessary to round up three precent of the US population I favor amnesty.However as I said at the time of the Reagan amnesty it must be made clear that this will be the last amnesty ever, henceforth the penalty will be deportation like everyplace else in the world.

no one

TTG, It's not just about jobs and the supply and demand/free market forces involved with that. The addition of welfare and other benefits (e.g. citizenship at least for one's children) into the equation makes the US attractive regardless of what is happening in the job market.

Section 8 housing and food stamps is still a better deal than what they had back in the country of origin.

Ulenspiegel

"And no, US cannot do anything to ameliorate the conditions of Central America or Mexico short of weaning herself of narcotics and other mind-altering drugs."

What would happen after legalization of drugs? Most would be produced in much better quality in the USA and sold for a much lower price. The economic effect on other countries in the Americas would be similar to the scenario you descibe (IMHO correctly as unrealistic).

Bill H

There is a more basic issue in that Q&A. The candidates are both saying that if elected they will not perform their constitutional mandate to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed." They are pandering for votes to a special interest group by promising to ignore their constitutional duty for the benefit of that group.

Further, that group is questioning the candidates about how their group will benefit from the election of the candidate. Their interest is not the well being of the nation, but the well being only of their own special group.

So we have candidates openly offering to violate their office in behalf of special interest groups and openly campaigning on a race and/or economic class basis, and we have citizens voting based on how their own personal interest will be served. It is no wonder that we have a failing democracy. This is the ultimate "division" part of the saying about "divided we fall."

BrotherJoe

A large percentage of the illegals are from Central America. How did they get to our border? Obviously thru Mexico. From what I've read Mexico has a very strict policy about admitting immigrants. I must conclude then that the Mexican government is deliberately allowing this influx and is speeding them on their way to the US. Am I wrong?

Albert de Koninck

Get rid of the bloody italics.

William R. Cumming

An important distinction that none seems anxious to clarify!

William R. Cumming

FEMA never created plans to have concentration camps for refugees/immigrants/ foreign nationals. But DoJ which housed INS [Immigration and Naturalization Service] for over 40 years did.

It did not pass without notice that Reagan's first FEMA Director [1981-1985] Louis O. Guiffrida, a General in the California State Militia [see Title 32 USC] long before becoming had written a thesis in a service college on how to round up and house in an emergency others than enemy aliens.

William R. Cumming

It is no longer PC to study and analyze the Nation-State system despite a UN!

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