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04 February 2016

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alba etie

All
And as we watch the P + 6 continue to exterminate the Liver Eaters - Al Jezerra is just now reporting that KSA would like to join the US led coalition with Saudi troops on the ground in Syria to combat ISIS. If that is true does this mean we will have US led Saudi troops fighting only ISIS & with a real risk it would appear that there will be open clashes between the 'our ' coalition & Russia and the other 6 ?
... WTF over ??

Thomas

"Are we stupid enough to do that?"

If you mean the SST community, then the answer is Hell No.

As for the Civilian Leaders in the "West", I am truly concerned that their answer is yes.

Fredw

Doubt it. If we were stupid enough to do that, we would have done all sorts of other stupid things before now. In fact we have been trying to do as little as possible. Which sounds right give a range of options running from horrible to catastrophic.

Medicine Man

I don't know what Erdogan is capable of but I don't think Obama will sign off on a move that reckless. Whatever his faults, including his willingness to allow all of this sabre-rattling carry on under his administration, he has so far been resistant to overreach of this type. Pres Obama seems determined to avoid committing historic blunders and throwing in against Russia over a distant civil war of dubious strategic interest surely qualifies as one.

Babak Makkinejad

Walrus:

Everyone knows that the Peace Talks are going Nowhere (but going there rather fast).

This is all diplomacy at its finest.

You cannot expect Kerry, Cameron, Fabius, Steinmeier to publicly show contrition and wear the proverbial sac cloth and ashes (although, I personally would greatly enjoy that sight.).

Nor can you expect them to publicly scream at Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Qatar - what for; they are very good customers who have gone off the reservation but will come back - as they have no place else to go.

Russians are hoping against hope for reaching an understanding with US and Iranian are there just to show the flag and indulge in a bit of showmanship.

The Arabs are losers - but then, that is not new either.

Linda Lau

I certainly hope we are not stupid enough to do that, but it's a good thing none of the Republican candidates is president now. I also that the Middle East would be better off with a diminished role for Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Jack

While the jihadi supporters in the West and their fellow travelers among the Turks and Saudis will whine and attempt to win what they're losing on the battlefield through media manipulation, they're not gonna get into a shooting match with the Russians. That's a path of disaster. Especially after the Russians have demonstrated what they're capable of doing.

VietnamVet

Walrus

We are watching a replay of 1914 all over again only in very slow motion thanks to nuclear weapons and there are no mass armies to mobilize to rush to the borders. That said, today is much more dangerous. A nuclear war is an extinction event. Anger, pride, humiliation, religious fervor and greed still drive mankind. You can say whatever you want about Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Nikita Khrushchev or Richard Nixon; but, they were rationale and saw the world as it is. That is not the case now.

If Philip Breedlove, Victoria Nuland and Pierre Omidyar are calling the shots, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will heed the call to rescue his fellow Sunnis from murder by demonic infidels. On the other hand, Barrack Obama, David Cameron and Angela Merkel could be counseling the Turkish government not to invade Syria. But, there is no indication of this from the corporate information operation. Rather, it looks like the West will take on the Islamic State in Libya next.

Barish

"You cannot expect Kerry, Cameron, Fabius, Steinmeier to publicly show contrition and wear the proverbial sac cloth and ashes (although, I personally would greatly enjoy that sight.)."

You and me both, Babak.

I am somewhat surprised as to the spin that was put on Steinmeier's visit just now to Iran, however:

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/besuch-im-iran-steinmeier-wuerde-praesident-ruhani-gern-in-deutschland-begruessen/12914514.html

"Visit to Iran: Steinmeier would like to greet President Ruhani [German spelling here] in Germany"

Mostly neutral-ish article, except for this tidy oversimplification of the conflict:

"Am Vormittag reiste der deutsche Außenminister nach Saudi-Arabien weiter. Ein Erfolg der Syrien-Friedensverhandlungen in Genf ohne die Mitwirkung des schiitischen Irans, der die syrische Regierung militärisch stützt, und des sunnitischen Saudi-Arabiens, das der weitgehend ebenfalls sunnitischen Opposition hilft, gilt als praktisch unmöglich."

"Next, the German Foreign Minister travelled to Saudi-Arabia in the morning. A success of the Syria Peace Talks in Geneva without participation by Shiite Iran, which is militarily supporting the Syrian government, and without that of the Sunni Saudi-Arabia, which is aiding the mostly also Sunni Opposition, is considered practically impossible."

Note the wording employed here. And why exactly downplay the very real military goods that al-Saud liberally threw at all comers, a common denominator of whom is their shared Salafiya ideology?

Cortes

The Saker's report on Russian deployment in Syria with speculation on having seen something in Turkish behaviour justifying upgrades:

http://thesaker.is/technology-sitrep-russia-deploys-the-most-advanced-air-defense-systems-on-the-planet-in-syria/

annamaria

"Russians are hoping against hope for reaching an understanding with US..."
True. But a positive outcome would be highly detrimental for MIC. Peace dividends are not in vogue in the US nowadays.

Thirdeye

Not to be taken seriously as long as the Saudis are doing nothing about ISIS on their doorstep in Yemen and they are losing on the ground against the Yemenis. Maybe they thought it would encourage the US to consider boots on the ground in Syria.

Ghost ship

Lavrov recently stated, I believe, that Russia has accepted that Washington is not interested in an understanding with Russia so Russia will now act in the way that best helps Russia achieve its objectives.
I believe Russia is in Syria for the long haul to drive ISIS and the other jihadists either out of Syria or underground - just cutting out a mini-country for the non-jihadis in western Syria doesn't achieve Russia's objective of creating a cordon sanitaire to keep the head choppers, and heart and liver eaters out of the Caucasus.

David

Personally, I think "to the detriment of Israel" is a very, very, very long time coming.

ISL

Walrus:

See:
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-serious-grounds-suspect-turkey-preparing-invade-144435326.html;_ylt=AwrXoCGG6bNWdQ0AWZOTmYlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByNzdqbzZjBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMzBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw--

I will suggest the real question is are we (Obama) smart enough to read Turkey the riot act now. Its not at all clear that that is the case.

annamaria

"US demands Russia stop bombing Syria's opposition." Sounds like a plea to let ISIS be. The kingdoms and sultanate, the main suppliers and supporters of ISIS, are producing certain noises and actions indicating that the Princes and Sultan are prepared to fight for ISIS' survival up to the last mercenary in their disposal. The USA are currently in a position that brings to mind a famous fairy-tale, "The Emperor's New Clothes."
What kind of "great minds" in the US government have managed to reduce the US to this unenviable state?
There is also a steady unraveling of another US project, this one on the Russian borders: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/04/economic-minister-resignation-ukraine-crisis-aivaras-abromavicius
Those western "deciders" that have designed and initiated the ongoing projects in the Middle East and Ukraine are squarely the psychopaths.

D

"Are we stupid enough to do that?"

That's a rhetorical question, right? I mean ... we're talking about US meddling in the Middle East. Most anything the US does there is guarenteed to be stupid.

Jackrabbit

I very much doubt that any incursion into northwestern Syria will occur. Doing so would mean full-blown war between Turkey and Syria and, by extension, NATO and Russia+Iran.

Clearly, after the rebels are defeated, R+6 will move on to ISIS.

The 'Assad must go!' Coalition have a short opportunity to secure ISIS territory in Iraq and/or Syria as per UNSC 2249. Turkey, USA, and KSA have now all made statements supporting a military action against ISIS. And British Foreign Secretary Hammond has all but done so as well.

In that light, Turkish build-up along the border with Syria is mostly a defensive precaution.

Jackrabbit

"Peace Talks are going Nowhere"

Yes, they were suspended yesterday.

Jackrabbit

To complete the thought: a "defensive precaution" made prior to a move against ISIS. I'd guess that ISIS puts up limited resistance to their Turkish and Saudi friends.

R+6 will not attack an international Coalition holding what was formerly ISIS territory. Negotiations over the return of that territory and/or establishment of a Sunni state to rule over the territory could take years. Meanwhile, ISIS and rebel harassment and terr0r!sm against Syria from Turkey and former ISIS territory would continue.

Brunswick

"R+6 will not attack an international Coalition holding what was formerly ISIS territory."

They have to "take" that territory first. Trucking in SOF into jihadi areas won't do, as R+6 will just keep bombing and the S-400 ensures an absence of air support.

A "International" Coelition will need more authorization than UNSC 2249, China and Russia will veto, and Germany will abstain.

With Obama's term measured in days, the US is neither going to lead, or follow.

Amir

Basically White ISIS/DAESH will be "fighting" Black ISIS/DAESH": how sincere do you think this fight would be and who will be stuck in the crossfire?

Babak Makkinejad

That is how I think of it as well; a Cordone Sanitaire that would follow the Southern boundary of the former Seljuk Empire through Persian Gulf and Northern portion of Afghanistan - insulating the coming decay in Central Asia from the rest of Muslim World.

This suits China as well - neither in Kazakhstan nor in in Chinese Turkestan there is a natural boundary to prevent Jihadi inclusion.

LJ

John Batcheror interviews Prof. Stephen Cohen: sobering.

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-obama-administration-has-just-recklessly-escalated-its-military-confrontation-with-russia/

kooshy

Sorry for being off topic , but it's an election year, people should know.
FYI - Democratic presidential candidate HRW was paid 675000 dollars by wall street mega firm Goldman Sachs for three speeches she made to them.
Does anybody know the length of these speeches, so one can calculate how much each word coming out of her mouth costs? Perhaps if we knew her words are this expensive, we would have listened more carefully.

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