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10 February 2016

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ked

First, I am not endorsing her behavior by describing it, & we should all at least attempt to bring self- & partisan-serving politicians (& the political industry sector of the US economy!) to heel. They've blown it so badly for so long we've got the likes of Trump, Cruz & Rubio.

The Messianic urge in American history is long & complex to put it mildly. Strictly, born of a form of cult-leadership of the Christian style in our New World so ripe for projection by driven charismatics (LDS, William Miller, etc). There is also the very early "problem of the second generation" that (I believe) contributed mightily to the First Great Awakening. The generation born & bred in the early Protestant settlements did not share the experience of transition from the Old to New (& short duration) that their parents did & clearly there was no Rapture on the immediate horizon. we still have that "problem".

American religous weirdness, like exceptionalism as a belief system, is our culture's unique syndrome generated by complex causes (from geography to "luck" to timing, among the weighty one of being the fruit of Western Civ). The various threads of faith we experience in America today are a mix of indoctrination / manipulation & the human urge for clear & immediate transcendence. Oh, & making a decent buck out of all that too - that's what Jesus would expect of us!

However, I must admit, as a 3rd grader (@ MacArthur Elementary on Janneys Ln.) excelling in duck-&-cover lessons, I was enthralled with Billy Graham's very impressive faith-healing on TV (did he ever slam a Pres in the forehead? would it have worked?) & Bozo the Clown's afternoon show... I found them equally entertaining & meaningful. But I liked Shari Lewis best, for some reason... maybe I was born that way, along with the cynicism.

optimax

MRW

Thanks for the reply. We still have pockets of messianic nutcases dotting the country. Today they are cults without political power. God is invoked as the reason for everything from scoring a touchdown to winning a battle. Things haven't changed that much. I don't know how much the Puritans depended on the coming of the Messiah or hoped for it?

optimax

rjj

What do you mean by what I don't understand? I don't understand.

rjj

not clear if RS's "that"" refers to the "trogging it up" or the "off-the cuff" version of the response.

both max out the repugnometer.

rjj

aargh! wasn't clear. was expressing agreement with you.

THEIR trying to improve what THEY don't understand IOW catastropic statecraft.

How's that?

Babak Makkinejad

That he was an autocrat is not a point of dispute.

I think the most salient feature of him was that he was an autocrat without nuclear weapons. The question:

"Tripoli or Trieste?" - had he had nuclear weapons - would have had a wonderful way of concentrating the minds of NATO states, wouldn't it?

Jackrabbit

I don't believe that it was used in that 'flexible' way.

The Founders' Christian belief in Providence and God's blessing, strikes me as very different than the belief that one is God's 'chosen'. Similar to the difference between a privilege and a right. The neocons believe that exceptionalism conveys a RIGHT to rule.

ked

http://www.slang.ie/index.php?county=all&entry=If+my+aunt+had+balls+she+would+be+my+uncle.&letter=I

Lest we forget, a weapon must be reliable & deliverable to qualify as useful on the Big Board. I am more concerned that here in the good ole USA we seem to edge closer to atomic trigger-happiness / forgetfulness even as we grow more comfortable with torture.

optimax

rjj

Thanks. Now I understand.

optimax

Richard

That clarifies much for me. Interesting discussion.

Jackrabbit

I understand what Richard Sale is getting at. There is an understanding, that arose before the Revolution and continued after, that America is different than other 'civilized' countries of the time and its people were special (having a certain initiative and spiritedness). But I think it is very misguided to connect American distinctiveness with "God's chosen" or neocon thought.

Babak Makkinejad

You are missing the point.

I will rephrase the question:

People's Liberation Army General: "Taipei or Los Angeles?"

Misanthrope

If she thinks she's going to do that to Vladimir Putin, we all have a big problem.

Misanthrope

I don't really agree with the idea that owning property is a sign of virtue. For one reason, it underestimates the amount of luck which is involved in business success. Owning a lot of property is as likely to be a sign of luck as a sign of any particular virtue. In my experience when people succeed they attribute that to skill and when they fail they attribute that to bad luck. Often though it's the other way round - when they succeed it's due to luck and when they fail it's due to incompetence.
For another reason, the emphasis on accumulation of wealth tends to encourage sociopathic behaviour.

ked

Perhaps you miss the obvious... in the case of a fat dumb & happy PLA warlord, the answer is "sure, whatever pal, but you just threw in Beijing, Shanghai, Tianjin, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Dongguan, Taipei, Chengdu, Nanjing, Wuhan, Shenyang, Hangzhou, and Chongqing... for starters. have a nice day!

Babak Makkinejad

So, if I understand you correctly, you are willing to see to the annihilation of the United States over Tai-Pei.

Enough said.

J

It is appearing more and more that the White House is behind some of the Clinton email leaks.

Hmmm...

LeaNder

"Oh, & making a decent buck out of all that too - that's what Jesus would expect of us!"

That's what caught my attention first as an outsider. Some seem to be really good businessmen, while selling their religious variants. ...

I was trying to recall the triad on my mind once in an exchange somewhere else.

religion - power - politics. Not sure anymore. Money?

Seems Billy Graham had some influence over here. A friend, whose mother apparently was looking for salvation in the post 1945 universe and seems to have been fascinated by him, called him "God's machine Gun". Was that how he called himself?

"(did he ever slam a Pres in the forehead? would it have worked?) & Bozo the Clown's"

explain, the passage between the brackets and Bozo, will you?

******
We weren't taught to duck and cover over here. But I once offered "to duck" under a table instinctively, when people wanted to get me out of a house in North Ireland. ... In the end there was no bomb.

mistah charley, ph.d.

In last night's debate, Bernie pointed out Hillary's description of Kissinger as a friend and mentor. In reply, she brought up Bernie's apparent unwillingness to say who he goes to for foreign policy advice, if anyone. "Not Kissinger!", he exclaimed. Hillary laughed.

Sanders has at least done the minimum advised in

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/11/10966582/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-foreign-policy

Should he get as far as the nomination, the fear of retaliation by the Clintons, which is stated to be an important reason why he so far apparently has not recruited a foreign policy and national security "team", may be diminished then.

William R. Cumming

So does NATO have an effective opposition naval force in the MED?

William R. Cumming

Richard! You know I think very highly of your experience and judgment as evidenced by your many fine posts. Have I missed something or have their been almost no questions to the many candidates asking directly their views ON REGIME CHANGE?

William R. Cumming

IMO history will record HRC did not make it to the Presidency for two fundamental reasons [mistakes]! First, leaving the Senate. Second trotting out Bill as in an effort to be nominated.

rjj

IT IS WRITTEN: US electorate does not care about foreign policy.

...... or its costs.

...... or its fallout.

HIJACK TANGENT TO REGIME CHANGE

By way of precedents, precursors, and geographic preconditions - there were 20 regime changes in Ukraine between 1917 and mid 1920s.

Came across Pilsudski >> BZZZZZT (wetware circuit sound) >> Brezhinski

Prometheism was mentioned once on SST in 2008 http://goo.gl/evmQuV


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheism [google returns 13K]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium [google returns 65K]

but it is making its way into general awareness ...

http://www.cepa.org/content/dream-intermarium

http://dissidentvoice.org/2016/01/the-balkanisation-of-europe-neo-prometheism-and-neo-ottomanism/


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