Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full sir… NOT! - TTG

WASHINGTON (AP) — A top Marine general predicts that the Defense Department's vows to maintain the same standards for women and men in combat jobs won't last, saying the military will eventually be pressured to lower the qualifications so more women can serve in jobs like the Marine infantry.

The public comments by Gen. John Kelly, head of U.S. Southern Command, underscored how strongly the Marines opposed Defense Secretary Ash Carter's plans to fully integrate women into all combat jobs, including the Marine Corps and special operations forces like Navy SEALs and Army Green Berets. A new, high-level disagreement is erupting over whether the Marine Corps must also fully integrate its 12-week recruit training program at Parris Island in South Carolina.

"They're saying we are not going to change any standards," Kelly told reporters at the Pentagon on Friday. "There will be great pressure, whether it's 12 months from now, four years from now, because the question will be asked whether we've let women into these other roles, why aren't they staying in those other roles? Why aren't they advancing as infantry people?"

Kelly, who has been a Marine for 45 years and served three tours in Iraq, said the sole basis for change in the military should be whether the change will make units more lethal. "If the answer to that is no, clearly don't do it. If the answer to that is, it shouldn't hurt, I would suggest that we shouldn't do it, because it might hurt," Kelly said. (Lolita C. Baldor, AP Correspondent)

*****************************

Navy Secretary Mabus sent the Marine Commandant a letter on 1 January demanding a plan for integrating Marine basic training by 15 January. He wants integration to begin by 1 April. A second memo warned the Marine leaders “not to use any concerns about integrating women into combat jobs as ways to delay the process.”

General Kelly is absolutely right. The Administration, including civilian leadership in the Pentagon don’t give a damn about the Marines or soldiers in the field. The Marine Commandant, General Neller, has asked for a one-on-one meeting with Ash Carter to discuss this matter. I will not be surprised to see General Neller forced to retire soon. If he is forced into retirement, he will become a vocal rallying point for all former Marines in their fight to save our fighting forces from the social revolutionaries. I’ll gladly join the Jarheads in this one. It should become an election issue. The fate of this country may depend on it.

TTG

Comments

[A. Pols]

The social justice warriors are determined to expand the world of pretense where all are equal, no matter what our lying eyes tell us to the contrary.
Women college basketball players put on a good show, but imagine how they'd look against UVA's men's team.

[pj]

I'm in general agreement with your post, but my contrary mind asks what about the Kurdish women fighting groups? Can you comment on how women seem to be able in certain times and laces to be credible fighting forces?

[cynic]

Here's an article by an expatriate American ex-soldier now living in Crimea. He came back to America on a visit recently, and found himself a stranger in his native land.

He comments on the American military as follows:
'The Armed Forces of the United States of America are also declining. I had the opportunity to speak to more than a few serving members in my time there. Gone is the pervasive bravado of but a decade ago, the ‘we can lick anyone’ attitude. To a man they all lamented the changes in the Armed Forces of the last 10 and more years, the forced integration of the deteriorating culture into the Armed Forces has led to noticeable numbers of the company and lower field grade officers leaving service, some of their own volition, a not small number invited to leave. Senior Sergeants, the backbone of any army, are also leaving in droves. Where in times past man would stay in for 25 or even 30 years, now it seems that most senior sergeants leave the day after they get their 20 in. Training and doctrine seem to have taken a distant second place to political correctness, not only in word but in deed. Women are being forcibly integrated in to combat units and will be expected to serve in the lines with the men. Many serving women have children, many out of wedlock, ergo deployment for them will be difficult if not impossible, plus it is an established fact that when deployment is on the horizon a not small number of women turn up expectant and can not be deployed with their units. All well and fine, you may say, but the reality is these women have been trained at great expense with their units for many months and sometimes for years. Taking them out and replacing them with another soldier right before deployment who does not know his fire team or O Group comrades, does not know the subtle differences in the way they conduct operations, leads to soldiers being killed, pure and simple.This for Political Correctness? It’s not worth it.'
http://thesaker.is/usa-sitrep-november-21-by-auslander/

[The Twisted Genius]

pj,

The Kurdish women fighters are part of a society fighting for their very existence. That is a big difference. I would expect this in almost any society fighting for their existence. I admire the YPG/YPJ for what they have been able to achieve, but I do not know how much the YPJ contributed to their success. Are they more auxiliary defense units or do they act as assault infantry? I hope there are studies of this in the future so we can assess their effectiveness more authoritatively.

[Lord Curzon]

I'm not denying their grit, but you put any of those women through training with the Royal Marines or the USMC, let alone a combat patrol with body armour, bergan, food, water, ammo, etc and they'll fall to pieces.

[The Twisted Genius]

Lord Curzon,

Exactly. They are totally different fighting forces in totally different situations.

[turcopolier]

Lord Curzon

You must be a marine. pl

[AriusArmenian]

Do we want an American Republic or an American Empire?

Right now we have the latter. It is getting very late but we could still restore the American Republic. It would require cutting military spending from 50% to 70%, pulling out of the thousand bases all over the world, and reorienting the military to defending the US between the two seas and Canada and Mexico.

Who is going to invade the US? No one. With a nuclear deterrent who is going to nuke the US? No one.

Therefore exit the US from the Middle East, NATO, and its foreign bases. The world has grown up since WW2. They don't need our heavy handed crony capitalist guidance. They don't need our color revolutions. They don't need our aiding and abetting jihadi head choppers and liver eaters. They don't need our subversion of their media. They don't need our telling them who to do business with. And we don't need oil from the MENA.

The American Empire has killed over four millions since just 1990. And for what, to spread more chaos?

Enough. End the American Empire to be a citizen of a republic or continue to live in the Empire spreading suffering and chaos.

[AEL]

Ho Hum,

There is far more to lethality than having a dongle between your legs.

Soldiering is a career now, and in order to get the best recruiting base everyone needs a fair chance at a perfect career.

[turcopolier]

AEL

Soldiering was always a career. You don't think people have to be physically strong in the infantry? Ever been in the infantry? pl

[Lord Curzon]

A former Gunner, Sir, attached to the Royal Marines Commandos.

[Lesly]

The military doesn't exist for professional or personal fulfillment. Anyone seeking a fair chance at either should join corporate America.

[JM Gavin]

Indeed there is far more to lethality than having male plumbing.

Brute strength and stamina are the starting point of what is needed, and ability to carry 75% of one's body weight in weapons, armor, and equipment in inhospitable terrain for extended periods of time without proper rest, hydration, or nutrition. This will often be down while folks you have never met before are doing their level best to kill you.

DOL,

JM Gavin

[The Twisted Genius]

AEL,

You miss the whole point of General Kelly's argument. Soldiering is not a career like most others. It is not master carpentry, not rocket science or medicine. It's preparation for and participation in a kill or be killed struggle with the promise that you may die, not as an unfortunate accident, but as an inherent part of soldiering. Training and standards to meet this reality cannot be relaxed so someone can have a nice career.

[The Twisted Genius]

AriusArmenian,

Your stance will find much support here, but it is immaterial to the question at hand. Should our military be a force prepared to wage lethal war or just another career opportunity open to all?

[Aka]

pj,
Kurdish women (as well as many other rebel group females) don't carry heavy loads. Only ammo and weapons.

USSR used females in the WW 2, but like the YPG they were fighting for their survival. And even then the females were not heavily used as front-line infantry.

[turcopolier]

AkA

Is that supposed to be educational? pl

[Alexey]

They weren't used as front line infantry at all. Provisional government in 1917 was forming female infantry battalions but even that more as an attempt to shame male troops into fighting. They ended up as a guards of said government on one fateful night in October of the same year. Didn't really work out for both. Government overthrow and heroic battalion heavily raped by a crowd of deserters an communist activists.

[readerOfTeaLeaves]

I fear that too often, the term 'liberal' becomes synonymous with 'idiocy', and this is one such instance.
This isn't liberalism; it's myopic careerism on steroids.

As long as this is discussed in an 'equity' framework, we'll keep making more idiotic decisions based on false goals.

[Fred82]

Semper Fi General Kelly.

If there was any doubt about most of the Left's inherent anti-military agenda, I think this should kill it.

I have to wonder how many of those advocating these ridiculous social engineering projects actually served in the military. I bet the number is pretty low.

[Old Microbiologist]

Mostly they were used as either very effective snipers or back in the rear to shoot anyone retreating with crew served weapons. My wife's aunt received an Order of Lenin for shooting "traitors" during the battle for Moscow. Also, the semi-automatic tower mounted guns on the Israeli Palestinian border are manned solely by women. But generally in Israel women are performing only support roles.

Personally having commanded dual gender units I am well aware of the difficulties in mixing men and women. I had a coed barracks and it was non-stop problems. My commander wanted to do a surprise walk through and after visiting several women's rooms with dildos and whips etc. he decided he had seen enough. This is the modern Army we have now and that was in a TDA unit. In my early years I spent weeks on ambulance duty at the tank ranges at Graf and there was another ambulance 500 meters down the line crewed by 2 women medics and there were long lines of "patients" paying for services rendered not of a medical nature. The recent problem with taking videos on nuclear submarines, the NSA analysts recording sex acts from subjects, etc. all indicate we will have huge problems with additional integration.

I also recall back in the 80's I made several attempts to earn the Expert Field Medical Badge (EFMB) and the women couldn't hang on the litter obstacle course or the combat lane, or even the 20km forced march with basic load. Some pass but most fail. To me this is the problem. We just are physically different. Even when all things are equal there is a much higher rate for injuries just performing regular tasks such as PT. it will fail miserably if this continues and sadly many women will sustain permanent disabilities from this experiment.

[Old Microbiologist]

Cynic, you make some excellent points and it replicates what I saw on my last assignment in DC. Part of the problem is endless deployments to far away places, fighting people who hates us to help people who perhaps hate us more. The BS about fighting for American freedom and democracy falls apart quickly leaving the soldiers without a moral compass. Many are realizing that the US in many ways has replaced Nazi Germany as the evil belligerent and this doesn't taste too good any more. Then the betrayal of the veterans once they return home and many have finally figured it out that the government will use you for its means and goals, however ridiculous those are, then toss you aside when you are no longer needed.

Another problem is that in the officer corps due to the system implemented with DOPMA, there is a down select for leadership and a skew towards sycophants and neredowells who build their careers by maintaining a low risk profile and blaming/reporting others for misdeeds or failures. I see a complete lack of responsibility. Where were the colonels, majors, captains, lieutenants etc. at Abu Graib? The apparently completely unsupervised E-4's got left holding the bag. This seems to be the typical pattern now.

[Fred82]

The US as the new Nazi Germany? Are you kidding me?

Seriously. You contribute some very good stuff but that is a pretty big stretch. People who have been making those comparisons aren't too smart and/or naively buy into a whole lot of BS.

I think US politicians as bumbling do-gooders is a lot more accurate.

[Sigil]

Fair points, but you lost me at "The fate of this country may depend on it."
No it won't. The purpose of the marines is mostly to be muscle in various far-flung protection rackets, as Major-General Smedley-Butler observed. Once in a while they might do something useful that involves R2P or protecting aid deliveries, but there's no argument that they are needed to defend the USA. The USA is not in any danger from external threats, and it's almost inconceivable that it ever could be.

[Lars]

The demise of the republic has been predicted with metronomic regularity since 1789. I am sure all this will also be sorted out in due time.