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09 January 2016

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Bob

I think he mean people who are up to their eyeballs in debt ie: students and underwater home owners

charly

True foreign tourism, that is tourists from outside the EU/EFTA is financially unimportant in Europe and local tourism has a very high shit happens level so will go on.

Tidewater

Tidewater to FB Ali,

Africa was easy.

Africa gets easier with every passing day.

Next time around, the Western dystopia will be willing to make the necessary sacrifice. However many robots it takes.

charly

That is not true. They form a big group (a thousand fighters or so) but only a small minority of the foreign non-Iraqi rebel fighters in Syria

charly

Only in language (especially as Northern Italian dialect is closer to French than Italian) but not in religion as Italians were still strongly catholic.

charly

Political it is in Germany impossible to say that the country needs a million immigrants a year to keep the economy going but that is the semi conservative estimate of most economist. So saying that you can harbour half a million asylum seekers a year allows you to do the political impossibility of having the right kind of mass immigration as Eastern Europe isn't big enough to deliver those numbers.

charly

If you look at how good Indians integrate in the US(great) or the UK(disaster) than i wouldn't look at the country of origin but what kind of people they were there and the the total number of immigrants.

Problem with small numbers is that they are great at integrating but it is a bit difficult to find enough groups to find the 100.000's Germany needs every year

charly

Drinking oil isn't hard. Just use oil to run a desalination plant.

charly

(2) Most people in the world can read and write. I know it is hard to believe but it is true.

charly

The majority religion in France was Catholicism during Sunday mass, it wasn't the rest of the week. The Italians, Portuguese and Poles were Catholic the whole week so the point isn't moot.

charly

The more diverse the more urban so it is not surprising

turcopolier

charly

I think we are talking about being culturally Catholic rather than observant. pl

Amir

And remember that some of those ex-Portugese, ex-Italian, ex-French and ex-Polish immigrants became Americans but not WASPs. The world kept on turning though.

different clue

FB Ali,

I have read here and there of a separate and unique source of jihadogenic Islamist radicalism with zero connection to anything KSA or Salafi/Wahhabi related. And that source is supposed to be a school of Islamist thought started up by some Islamist scholar/thinkers in a small Northern Indian town called Deoband. With the division of the British Raj India into India and Pakistan, many Deobandi mullahs and teachers went to Pakistan to set up Deobandist schools and institutes to deobandify as many Pakistanis as possible over time . . . to produce mass quantities of "deobandits", if one will.

That came back to my mind when I read this article in the London Review of Books. Could there be anything true or useful in this line of thought? Could many of the Pakistan and-or Afghanistan descended or connected people going to ISIS be "deobandits" with little or no KSA input? Here is the link.
http://www.ufppc.org/book-notes-mainmenu-36/12187-book-review-the-sources-of-violent-jihadism.html

different clue

Tidewater,

If manmade climate d'chaos decay is indeed a factor in these migrations, one wonders what will happen when a degrading climate makes life unlivable for a half-billion Indians and a half-billion Chinese? When they start moving, who is going to stop them? And how?

jld

Sure, they even have enough "stamina and determination and sturdiness" to kick off the help they are offered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L3eSbpETf8&feature=youtu.be

FB Ali

Yes, the Deobandi school of Islamic belief had an influence on the rise of the jihadi phenomenon. (There were two main religious schools of thought in British India: the Deobandis and the Barelvis. The latter was more open to modern and progressive views of the faith).

For a long time, madrassahs in Pakistan were split between these two schools, but they had limited effect on the general populace (more influential was a religious-political party, the Jamaat Islami, whose ideology was close to the Deobandi school's).

With the influx of Saudi money and influence into Pakistan in the early 1970s (during the US-supported anti-Soviet Jihad in Afghanistan) the Wahhabis largely took over the Deobandi madrassahs (the two creeds are not very different).

The bottom line is that a Muslim following or influenced by Deobandi teachings is easily converted to the more extreme Wahhabi/Salafi views (which is what Bennett-Jones says happened in the case of many British jihadis). In Pakistan, too, the Deobandi teachings eased the path of the rise of the jihadi phenomenon.

Will Reks

SteveG,

I'm not so sure why this statistic is surprising. I would expect that recent immigrants would have greater need for government assistance compared to natives as they get settled in a new country. This does not mean that they will continue to need government aid compared to some native groups.

Also, I'm not sure how you are determining that current migrants are not assimilating as well. We need more evidence on both fronts.

tv

Read this:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-migrants-and-the-elites-1441924372

Ulenspiegel

Charly, I have not checked the reason of the different performance of Indain immigrants in the UK and USA. Problem of local numbers and distribution? In Germany and Austria they contribute to a stable and modern society, the muslimic families from India I know are no exception.

RE Smaller non EU immigrant groups: China, India, Russia, Ukraine, Serbia, Iran(?)...

Then we have our EU "neighbours" whose citizens are free to come: Romania, Bulgaria, and the next five years very likely (again) people from Spain, Italy and Greece.

Ulenspiegel

Charly,

Germany does not need one million immigrants per year, the highest number I have found in publications of serious authors is 600.000, half a million are already at the higher end of the spectrum.

Then you have to subtract the immigration of EU citizens which can not be restricted.

So a more realistic picture is that Germany needs 300.000 per year from outside the EU. IMHO it would be no problem to get 200.000 Russinans and Ukrainians per year, if Germany wants.

annamaria

Syria is an illustration of how to do the same things again and get the same results and yet for some reason to expect that suddenly something different would happen
1. A civil war in Syria is still going on only because the US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Jourdan have been violating the territorial integrity of the state of Syria by supporting the so called “rebels”
2. The rebels are predominantly against a secular state; the majority of them are for sharia law. A large percentage of the rebels are indistinguishable from ISIS
3. By arming and financing the rebels, and therefore by promoting fragmentation of Syria, the activist countries (the US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Jourdan) have been preventing the restoration of Syrian statehood – thus making it impossible for Syrians to fight ISIS. It is safe to say that if not the US-approved and ongoing civil war in Syria, the ISIS would have been eliminated there long time ago.

LeaNder

Although, we are miles apart politically, not only divided by a big ocean, I got used to, occasionally even enjoy Tyler's non-verbose comments. I still think this is nonsense: "or massive ethnic cleansing is likely. (You nailed it Tyler)." At least not beyond what Giraldi suggested above and something like blowbacks.

But yes strictly the "SHUT UP AND FEEL" community is present on the opposing ends of the political poles. Once again, I would say, today with a 1.700 men police force trying to keep the two camps apart.


*******

I defended a German playwright against what felt like superficially labeling him as member of the right ages ago, in the early 80's when media already ran 'Völkerwanderung'-stories including image covers with the theme: The boat is full.

Apparently, he has raised his voice again in the same magazine that hunted him, publishing his article selectively only first, and then looking for evidence in one book, as I seem to recall, in the arts section as suspect rightist elitist at the times, and no I did not have the patience to read him yet. Not yet.

******
But yes, admittedly, Patrick Bahzad's earliest post here, long before it surfaced more prominently alluded to Belgium. A state that may not be up to time since the two central "ethnic groups" there fought for and got some type of independence, which may show up now as a problem. To leave out one of my standard sorry's concerning my suspicion as to French-Belgium stereotypes, or Patrick being some type of victim of them, which may have mislead me to babble on this first contribution by him here on SST.

to remain with Patrick:

Concerning the aftermath of Paris. The main suspect seems to have surfaced here in Cologne at one point. Renting a car, or something I forget.

Maybe that was on my mind somewhat deeper down, when I encountered one day the apparent contradiction between a Saudi female dress code without the obligatory (I thought) male companion--have the Islamist revolutionaries somewhat softened Saudi laws, or did Saudi Arabia itself?--in any case it was a strong and really peculiar experience to look into these "slotted eyes" surrounded by black, when I turned around somewhat feeling watched maybe on a traffic light on my bike.

There and then, I discovered the ends of my tolerance. Why? Maybe since her presence and habit not only is pretty new, but also her glance subjectively seemed to suggest, I had committed the crime of wearing trousers and a jacket and riding a bike, pretty much the same as a man would do?

You rarely ever turn around without someone staring at you, except to check traffic. No, I have no statistical evidence for that. But experience beyond the ordinary everyday context.

The rest here in Germany as far as the event in Cologne is concerned will be politics.

On the other hand police or federal police supposedly found a paper of sexual slurs in Arabic and their German equivalent. I remain skeptic to the extend I can in this context. Interesting item. Nevertheless.

LeaNder

FB Ali, the ones that I find most grating over here are the converts. Especially "the preachers". Patrick mentioned them. Not that I would not understand that someone that grew up more or less post 9/11 may choose the wrong road.

annamaria

Absolutely agree on all points
There is an idealistic perspective: instead of the armed enterprises aimed at getting new markets and new resources for the benefits of a few, it would be much wiser to maintain stability in the existing countries. Some of the very effective ways to improve stability would be to help with a free supply of contraceptives and with women' education.
It would also help if Israel finally defines her borders. And it goes without saying that the US should better nationalize the mega banks in order to cutoff the enormous influence of the bloody thieves of Wall Street and Fed Reserve and reestablish the draft.

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