« I think attacks in the US are likely. | Main | Clinton CNN poll results - 4 December 2015 »

04 December 2015

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Charles Michael

One of the most daring suicide attack during the Sri Lankan war against LTTE took place at the General Army Headquarter; the target was the Cief General in Command (the one leading a very successful offensive).
Now this was a very Hight security place... with a flaw. There was in the compound a clinic for pregnant women married with military personnel.
The female LTTE agent got maried with an Army Officer, got pregnant, went to consultation, throw herself on the General car.

General (don't remember the name) got very badly unjured but did survive thanks to the sacrifice of two motorbycilles ridind securities.

There you have, the extremes these terrorist imagination, cunning and fanaticisme can go.

turcopolier

all

"I do not believe or see any evidence that these two were supported by ISIS and or AQ" They were funded by the County of San Bernardino. The best kind of funding from the IS or AQ POV. pl

The Twisted Genius

BabelFish,

They made plenty of money to easily afford their arms and ammunition. You can buy a thousand rounds of 5.56 ball ammo for $350. Shooting enthusiasts making far less money spend vast sums on their hobby.

allbut6

Can someone tell me how the shooters legally obtained the long guns? I don't believe it's legal to sell "assault rifles" in California.

turcopolier

LZA

"a female of that size could be easily overpowered." Not when she is shooting at you. An AR-15 type .223 rifle weighs something between 6 and 10 pounds depending on variant and accessories. My West Point women students of similar size had no problem at all in handling that kind of rifle. There is little recoil. She had no weapons training? None was needed. In a crowded room all you have to do is keep pulling the trigger and you will hit a lot of people. pl

Patrick Bahzad

DH,

In reply to your question, I think the 'glass ceiling' was broken by the terror attacks in Paris. Prior to November 13th, you definitely had the same problems as the ones we're addressing here and now.

Things have changed since. Sadly, we had to wait for something terrible to happen for things to change.

Patrick Bahzad

H,

I already commented on the 'backlash' issue and I think we agree on the risks involved. However, I don't think we should overplay the issue.

Regarding the ISIS/AQ connection, I think you are - like many in the US - still using a software that is outdated. This is not about organisations with clear command structures supporting and instructing their footsoldiers. This is about something else, that works differently and is triggered not by a direct command but a process which can't be predicted very easily, and is thus all the more dangerous.

Patrick Bahzad

Absolutely. I'm surprized at the general level of misinformation and ignorance about the mechanisms at work for informal terror 'cells' such as this couple.

People need to stop watching '24' and 'Homeland' and start reading about the real deal.

Wyoming

Actually they likely could have easily afforded their gear. 2 assault rifles, 2 handguns, 6000 round of ammo, a couple of vests and other clothing? $6000 would cover that shopping list in my area. If you went for top of the line it would of course be more. But why bother as you only are going to need it once.

Patrick Bahzad

fish in a barrel, as horrible as it sounds ...

kao_hsien_chih

One thing I wonder is how many people, even if they had good reasons to suspect all these early on, could publicly state such things on mainstream media. One of the perverse consequence of Borgification is their pervasive anti-intellectualism (in the classical sense). They may "look" and "talk" different from the Trump crowd, but they buy their own BS, perhaps far more than the Trump crowd (I cannot generalize beyond my own experience, but I found that cultural "rednecks," if they are bright enough, are usually very quick to change their mind if they see evidence that they can make sense of--they are far more aware of their own lack of knowledge. The self-claimed "knowledgeables" find excuse after excuse to dismiss the evidence, in no small part due to their smug arrogance that they "know" the truth--that is something that I myself try very hard to overcome, but it is not easy!)

United States is too full of people who buy into their own BS. They are impenetrable unless totally irrefutable body of evidence can be presented--but such evidence is difficult, if at all possible, to assemble in real life settings especially when time is short and the facts are murky and uncertain. Even real experts would have trouble being understood at all unless they speak in Borgish. But, in Borgish, everyone sounds the same, so why go for real experts who speak "weird" Borgish?

Jiu Jitsu

LAZ, they were wearing ski masks & wearing tactical gear webbing (which witnesses said looked like body armor, covered with webbing & bullet magazines) so you can't tell the gender except by close inspection

It's NOT just a workplace shooting or just 'mental illness' (unless you count religious extremism as delusional mental illness) -- all his coworkers said
he
was shy but nice & got along with him in their interviews & he won workplace awards & his boss had glowing reviews about him
--
but his coworkers did say his wife radicalized him

When you couple that with the wife's pledge to ISIS & copying Al Queda/ISIS bomb making pans and Farook's phone
&
social media accounts having multiple contacts with international terrorists, people are trying to deny the obvious

Only the most religious extremist leaves their newborn son to go on jihad shooting up a undefended gov building to meet paradise (according to the Koran, getting killed while on jihad gaurantees you going to heaven/paradise)

==

To understad why, you have to understand the extremist intolerant theocratic Sharia law Salafist Wahhabist ideology & how it's pushed & spread by Saudi Arabia
& how Al Queda & ISIS are it's offshoots with similar ideology

And how during the Cold War the US & British govs used the Salafist Wahhabist jihadists as proxy armies
to fight the Soviet Union & any govs that leaned towards communism/socialism such as in Afghan in 1980s, Indonesia, etc

The problem is tha Saudi Arabia keeps funding $2-$3 BILLION a yr to spread Salafism Wahhabism & arming the Salafist Wahhabist jihadists in Chechya, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc

Even spreading it to Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Phillipines, Malaysia, etc --turning those previously mostly peaceful moderate Muslims (like the Sufi Muslims in Russia) into extremist
theocratic Salafist Wahhabists who want a sepaatist theocratic Sharia law Muslim state, & doing bombings & beheading 7-12 yr old school girls in their push for a theocratic separatist state

from British MI6 intel officer & diplomat Alastaire Crooke
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html

Charles Michael

Must have been in the 70's, a certain Charles Whitman pionnered mass murder without a cause. He went up the clock tower in an university with a scope rifle, a hand gun and a spray o deodorant. Did kill 15/21 ? students.
Deodorant as a clue to narcissism, we have it also with the guy mass killing at this movie theater.
Narcists when frustrated can turn to violence, it's a chemical reaction in the complex central nervous system (biologist Henri Laborit).

Now yesterday, before us having more details about this Bonnie & Clyde , it could look like some personnal drama. Not any more: it is terrorism.

But the question remain of stepping over the line and action. And I think even for this type of endoctrined and or manipulated excecutionners the psychological process should be closely investigated. Understanting is the first step to preventing, first by profiling more accuretely, second by enabling to read the alarming signs consistent with this pattern.

In my opinion, mass shootings and terrorist random attacks are feathers of the same vultures.

kao_hsien_chih

I'm finding the role of CAIR (and for that matter, a lot of so-called "community leaders" in comparable situations) fascinating.

If we were in a Middle Ages type setting, "community leaders" would have been recognized as such (to speak on the behalf of their community) only if they are able to police "their own people" and ensure that they abided by terms of whatever deal they made. In other words, an organization like CAIR would have been given the recognition only if they can actually help root out the radical elements among American Muslims. Other than spread subtle Saudi propaganda (As has been pointed out in a different thread) disguised in PC lingo, what exactly do they do?

kao_hsien_chih

I suppose this is getting a bit afield, but I thought it worth mentioning since I just picked up my old copy of Durkheim's work on religion following the exchange with David Habakkuk.

Still in progress, but perhaps old sociologists had something insightful to say about how modern "religio-philosophical" terrorism works...

turcopolier

KHC

A college graduate intelligent woman friend told me yesterday that the information in our posts on the SB deadly duo are so filled with information that the US public has never confronted that the majority will have a hard time processing it. I attribute the truth of what she said to Borgish conditioning of the public. pl

john

Occam's razor says: If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Babak Makkinejad

Truly horrible; turning women from carriers of Life into carriers of Death - a complete negation of traditional values and all that go with them.

Wyoming

mbrenner

Your first sentence is certainly correct. In my opinion there is not much else in your post which comes close.

The biggest misunderstanding you seem to be expressing is a belief that the level of cultural violence in America is inclusive of terrorist violence. This is simply unsupportable. American culture certainly has high expressions of violence - there are many such violent cultures in the world and ordering a list would be very problematic. But terrorism cannot be conflated with violence associated with culture.

Another big issue I see in your post is the mislabeling of acts of domestic terrorism - McVeigh, abortion clinics, San Bernadino - and seeming to include them into the category of cultural violence. Cultural violence is our prevalence to use force in domestic disputes, the workplace to right some wrong, the mentally ill choosing to act out, and the like. Foreign or domestic terrorism is mostly religiously motivated and to lesser amounts politically and economically motivated (that is it has a tactical or strategic purpose at its core which cultural violence does not contain). In other words its apples and oranges.

Additionally war does not primarily occur because international society has inadequate governing structures. It strikes me as incredibly naive for someone to think that the existence of such a structure would eliminate conflict - or even be able to control such conflict. Such a belief flies hard into the face of history. And, no, a great many conflicts do not have readily identifiable specific causes which can be addressed. Not to mention that some conflicts can only be solved by bloodshed and one side or the other imposing their will on their opponent. Not all conflicts are two sides with equal and justified interests. And some among humanity do not care if your interests are reasonable as their interests are to get what they want no matter what.

It is nice that you think Islamic violence is going to be temporary, but hold a caution there and give yourself an out. A deep core part of the current radical Islamic focus and motivation is historically based and to many of them this conflict is pushing 1400 years in duration. Do not forget that there are a host of Christian fundamentalists as well and many of them are forthright in their desire to more deeply engage in what the radical Islamists are reaching for. There is little I see to indicate this conflict does not have long legs yet.

Violence has many fathers and the simplicity is in thinking there is a simple solution. Or a solution at all.

Bandolero

All

The couple, as I read, was a US citizen of Pakistani origin, who went twice a week to the mosque. He met his wife online, a Pakistani living in Saudi Arabia, after announcing his contacts in an online marriage forum where he described himself as a devout Muslim. The couple met and married in Saudi Arabia, in the saudi mosque what is billed as "the most holy mosque." After the marriage the guy worked on memoralizing the quran. No problem with this: a couple of devout muslims adehering to the Saudi wahhabi doctrines, or similar ones which are popular in Pakistan, lived the American dream in the US, and the guy had a typical US hobby which he described as "target practice" with his little sister.

Now, the interesting thing. The guy worked as public health restarant inspector and there he had some colleagues, among them a guy, of whom the NYPost reports, quote:

A Jewish man who was slain in the San Bernardino massacre had a heated argument with the gunman about Islam being a violent religion just two weeks before the shooting that killed 14 and wounded 21.

Nicholas Thalasinos, a devout Zionist, became furious with Syed Rizwan Farook, a fellow restaurant inspector, during work, declaring that the Muslim man “doesn’t agree that Islam is not a peaceful religion.”

Farook shot back that Americans don’t understand Islam, to which Thalasinos responded by saying, “I don’t know how to talk with him,” according to Kuuleme Stephens, a friend of Thalasinos’ who told The Associated Press that she heard the exchange while talking with him on the phone.

On the night before he was slain, Thalasinos — who maintained a Facebook page filled with anti-jihadi barbs — warred online with a Muslim fanatic who threatened to kill him.

“My new hobby appears to be BLOCKING PAGAN ANTI­SEMITIC TROGLODYTES so I’m just passing this along to warn others,” Thalasinos posted.

His online adversary Tuesday night was a Ukrainian who posted as “Med Ali Zarouk” and who had drawn Thalasinos’ ire with an anti-Semitic rant.

“You will never sucsseed [sic] to make a country for jews,” the Ukrainian had written, “because you are criminals and cowards . . . soon you’ll get your ass kicked, you will die and never see israel as country believe me never.”

The next morning, Thalasinos, a San Bernardino County restaurant inspector and father of two adult children, was shot dead by Farook, who had been in contact with Islamic extremists on social media.

Thalasinos’ widow, Jennifer, told The Post she considers her slain husband — whom she called “anti-Muslim” — a martyr.

Source:

http://nypost.com/2015/12/03/california-massacre-victim-ranted-about-muslims-on-facebook/

So, what could go wrong when a "devout muslim" - whose hobby is target practice - following a kind of the Saudi wahhabi doctrine, meets daily on work with a "devout zionist" who rants things like Islam is not a religion of peace, and hell knows what else. Claiming that Prophet "Mohammed was a pedohile" is also a quite common rant in some circles of devout Zionists.

To me it looks quite obvious what happened and why: a radical zionist loving to insult Islam ran into an armed radical wahhabi couple deeming the insult of Mohammed a sin rightly to be punished by death. What then happened is quite similar to what happened in Kabul after the US army decided to burn old qurans in the garbage a couple of years ago. Those who feel insulted and humiliated by these acts or rants turn to violence. A voila.

walrus

It should also be bloody obvious that "stricter gun control" has no relationship at all with this event.

Rex

AR style weapons are legal in CA if they have a "bullet button" for magazine release. This requires a bullet or hard pointed object to be pushed in a hole to release the magazine. In the style of WWII Mausers such as K-98.

CA governor recently vetoed a bill to remove this gaping exemption.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/10/09/bill-to-close-bullet-button-loophole-awaits-gov-browns-signature/

Likely people bypass this by an easy modification after 'legal' purchase.

Wyoming

allbut6

There are many companies which market 'assault' rifles which comply with California laws. Plus there are many companies which sell parts to upgrade weapons which cannot be sold attached to the weapons in California. But it is legal to sell the parts separately.

Fred

Babak,

"a complete negation of traditional values and all that go with them."
That's one of the great achievement of modern feminism.

Jack

All

I read this morning that the FBI is treating this as a terrorism investigation. They are not fooled. No one stocks up assault rifle ammunition and builds homemade pipe bombs to hunt duck and boar.

Mr. Bahzad is making an important point. The jihadists don't need a formal command & control. These are self directed actors. It is easy to access the weapons and chemicals to make homemade IEDs and it is not expensive. Look these folks can max out their credit cards and go to meet their maker. We need to acknowledge that this is an insidious threat as there is no easy way to know who is going to act out and when.

There's no doubt the Borg will attempt the bait and switch once again to obfuscate the fact that politically our government is aligned with the jihadi sponsors. When Dana Rohrabacher and Tulsi Gabbard get as much time as McCain and Graham then we know that some change is coming. But as Mr. Habakkuk points out the average guy is catching on to the reality of what's going on. People will connect the dots at some point and realize that coddling Saudi, Turkey and Gulfies and regime change against secular strongmen leads to crazies with a death wish in our streets. Not to mention our slavish encouragement of Likudnik fantasy. I recall in the 2008 presidential election campaign the derisive comments from Giuliani et al when Ron Paul was connecting the dots. Unfortunately in our current governmental setup only failed policies get doubled down on and those that failed get more power.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

October 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
        1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Blog powered by Typepad