« Allons enfants de la patrie! | Main | Declare War… For Real This Time - TTG »

14 November 2015

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

alba etie

PS to Brig.Gen Ali
I mean besides the usual suspects the Gulfies , Qatar , SA , Turkey - are there other state actors that have been enabling the Islamic State . It seems to me that if France invokes Article 5 - then Turkey would be forced to stop supporting the Liver Eaters - .

MartinJ

The Borg is going to have to react quickly to manipulate the minds of the public across Europe and the US. This atrocity will result in action because the electorate, the people, will it. If given a choice I believe they would support the Russian actions against ISIS and the rest of the jihadis. The memory of Iraq 2003 is not dimmed in the public consciousness. I hope the righteous anger of the ordinary people in France is directed into government action that really will stamp out this menace rather than just being seen to do "something" out of fear of upsetting business contracts with the Gulfies.

I believe they will act decisively.

Valissa

Well said FB, thank you.

My condolences as well to Patrick and any French citizens reading this blog.

I agree that Wahhabism is a huge problem. How do you deal with that? There are limits as to what "the West" can do about that type of religious extremism. I think this issue is best addressed somehow within the greater Muslim world community, and not attempted by Western Judeo-Christian nations.

I also think Tigershark makes a very important point about shutting down the bankers of ISIS and the various ISIS revenue streams. Is any Western country siccing their key bankers and financiers on the bankers and financiers of ISIS? I'd be willing to settle for a containment strategy since I can't imagine bankers killing other bankers (OK I can imagine that, and think it would make a great movie... banker heroes vs.banker villians).

Haralambos

This is recently up: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996120/Paris-attack-what-we-know-about-the-suspects.html

Paris attack: Syrian passport at Paris bomb scene was used to claim asylum in Greece

"We announce that the passport holder passed through Leros on 03.10.2015 where identity was checked under EU rules," the minister, Nikos Toskas, said. “We do not know if the passport was checked by other countries which the holder is likely to have passed through.

“We will continue the painstaking and persistent effort under difficult circumstances to ensure the security of our country and Europe."

This will certainly add more to the controversies here in Europe over refuges/migrants/ and asylum-seekers. There have been many worried voices raised about (potential) jihadists entering along with the others.

PeteM

My point was/is that continuing to designate the Islamic State as only a 'terrorist group', somewhat small, limited or destroyable is a fantasy as the Paris attacks clearly show. They are a State with global reach that uses terror as an effective tactic/tool just as all the major powers have done throughout history.

The Paris attacks were a Schwerer Gustav sized blast to the Western Maginot Line illusion of security and safety while waging war on the ME and this is a huge psychological defeat for the West, Russia and anyone who attacks this growing powerful adversary.

Underestimating and misinterpreting the Idea behind the Caliphate and its potential power is a major part of the reason that the West and now Russia were so easily manipulated by the IS and drawn back into the conflict in the ME.

walrus

CP, Australia is just changing its laws about dual citizenship. If you have acquired an Australian passport as a refugee, you will be stripped of it and deported if you engage in terrorist activity either in Australia or overseas. Germany could consider doing likewise.

Any Australian of Syrian background who decides to leave the country to do Jihad won't be coming back, not even in a box.

Amir

Erdogan, not Turkey but in a broad sense his party, is part of the problem, begging for THE solution. The Wahabi Brotherhood messes around in disguise along the Seine, hopefully Anonymous messes around with Erdoganists along the Bosphorus.

jonst

bth wrote: "McCainism rants and Trump blather", alright, not going to argue that now. But can we agree to dismiss, as well, the pusillanimous, lily livered, half ass, casualty free, politically correct, over managed from DC nonsense of the Clinton's et al?

pbrownlee

Wit and gentleness -- as well as music -- may be in short supply over the next few day; words, alas, not.

I think I will try to listen to Offenbach rather than Netanyahu and any variety of Le Pen. "Orphée aux Enfers" always beckons with its adroit portrayal of l'Opinion Publique...

Whatever happens, it might be wise to avoid the traditional antics of not overbright small-time mobsters who think they are being clever -- such as http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34801195

pbrownlee

Forever.

And not just the US -- every mindless minion in the Coalition of the Willing to believe anything. Would that Chalabi were with us now!

We have all the watches but others have all the time and, let us say, tactical and strategic flexibility.

The (relatively) new crusader states will continue to burn.

VietnamVet

PB

My condolences. This is just the beginning. The real tragedy is that western propaganda will rail against Russia and the Syrian Arab Republic while ignoring that a regional holy war is underway; a piecemeal World War III. The influx into Europe of millions of Muslims forced out of their homes including radicalized Islamists is a direct result. The basic foundation of the wars in the Levant and Ukraine are corrupt. They are proxy wars to destabilize Russia.

It is now too late to quarantine the Islamic State. Let’s be honest. If the wars continue to be fought for profit they will be lost and the West will disintegrate. The Eurozone is collapsing. The only to win is to join in an alliance with Russia. Force a political settlement that reestablishes state control of the Middle East and eliminates all non-state combatants. This requires a people’s army of soldiers, police, doctors, teachers and engineers to rebuild the world not destroy it.

bth

One could see a scenario where Russia and France coordinated their retaliatory actions against IS.

The Beaver

Robb

It must be the same rags which were claiming last night that France was closing its borders and declaring martial law.

Macgupta123

Recently, if Pakistani press reports are to be believed, the State was successful at clamping down on violence in the mega city of Karachi. From 2000+ killings in the previous year, the number has come down to 250 or so, at the cost of 150 policemen and some 400 people killed in police encounters. And the Pakistani state is not particularly strong. If true, it is an impressive performance.

The point is that if there is the will it can be done. I think that would-be terrorists arise all the time, but normally they are easily squashed. It is when they find powerful sponsors that they become a huge threat. Even a weak state can finish off terrorists, such is the power of the state. Another example is Sri Lanka completely annihilating the LTTE. To win this war we will have to name, isolate and end the sponsors of these terrorist groups. Yes, ISIS has grown to be a quasi-state, and so it will be harder.

J Villain

Along the same lines

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/May-it-never-end-The-uncomfortable-truth-about-the-war-in-Syria-419246

jld

Curfews have been ALLOWED if needed but not actually edicted anywhere AFAIK
https://twitter.com/Place_Beauvau/status/665512715243413504

jld

I don't want to get personal but you should heed your own advice and cool down Mr Bahzad.
You are very, very often the "agressive one"!

bth

What I want is a discussion on this forum of what an actual punitive attack on IS would be composed of and how it would be accomplished by France or Russia. Specifics. Not political rants.

Michael Deloisy

I hope we join Russia in Syria. We need to stop antagonizing Russia and close the gap opened in 1917.

jld

No, "Burning Calais" isn't a clever move AT ALL!
This doesnt make them leave the country just getting angrier and receiving more support from the usual suspects.

jld

This seem exceedingly optimistic, why would Turkey be compelled to do anything different from what they are already doing?
OTOH, as I suggested before, that would bring many opportunities for a mongolian clusterf--k in Syria.
Like, if Syria didn't like the idea they could, perfectly legitimately and legallly, declare a no-fly zone over all their territory.
Ahem...

Bandolero

Petrous

I would like to extend that question to "parts of our own government."

See RFI, 07 September 2015, quote:

Syrians take French FM Fabius to court for 'encouraging' al-Nusra

... The plaintiffs, all Syrians, claim that several statements by Fabius stoked the Syrian conflict in 2012.

Among them was a declaration, made during a visit to a refugee camp in August, that "Bashar al-Assad doesn't deserve to be on this earth."

They also cite a quotation in Le Monde newspaper when Fabius reported that the Syrian opposition coalition and "all the Arabs" opposed the US decision to put al-Nusra on its terrorist list because "they are doing a good job on the ground". ...

Source:

http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20150907-syrians-take-french-fm-fabius-court-encouraging-al-nusra

So, the more serious question looks to me like: How is a war fought when parts of our government do not have their heart in it and maybe even have it and their slightly on the other?

J Villain

If it is true that one of the terrorists entered the EU as a refuge that would indicate that this attack was planned and coming from before France launched their attacks. Besides France has been a bit player on the direct military attack front. Behind the curtains?

If the US still had reporters it would be a great time to ask Hillz why as SoS she sent a cable saying KSA is the largest supporter of terrorism in the world.
But now the Clinton foundation is filling it's coffers with the Saudi money and she is now dead silent on Saudi Arabia.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/242073
machine-for-terrorists/210038/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton-foundation-defends-acceptance-of-foreign-donations-1424302856

https://theweek.com/articles/570297/how-saudi-arabia-exports-radical-islam

This will all be more about misdirection and cover up than ending terrorism.

Joe100

Patrick -

Recognizing that early reports may not be accurate, this eyewitness report suggests that much more capable participants are emerging - compared to the events earlier this year - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/14/paris-attack-witness-he-was-dressed-in-black-professional-shooting-and-killing

If this report is accurate, it seems a chilling sign.

I must admit that having thought I was well informed about the middle east and associated conflict/terrorism, your posts in August and since have opened my eyes and shifted my perspective on the nature and extent of the jihadi threat.

My condolences on this tragedy.

Laura Wilson

Aka---It does seem that overreacting and "militarizing" every reaction, can only be harmful. Essentially these people are criminals and should receive swift civilian justice. They don't WANT to be treated and viewed as criminals but as soldiers in a cause. They are criminal terrorists not an existential threat to world civilization--unless we give them that status.

It gets so complicated when an attack like this happens.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

January 2021

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            
Blog powered by Typepad